Joe Rogan says weight-cutting is cheating

It isn't cheating, but yea I get what he means. Actually it's kind of rare that Rogan says something that makes sense.
 
sangreporsangre said:
It isn't cheating, but yea I get what he means. Actually it's kind of rare that Rogan says something that makes sense.
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It is indeed "cheating" the system.

Instead of seeing who is the best 170lb champ ... what we get is the best guy tbat can make it to 170lbs the day before and who knows bow much he weighs now.

It cheats the system of having fighters of equal weight because come fight night ... neither fighter has the same weight anymore.

It's one of the main reasons japanese fighters have struggled so much. They dont cut weight so tbey are usually outsized and not outskilled.
 
Rogan doesn't make any sense. On one hand he says weight cutting gives you this huge advantage, then on the other hand he claims Thiago is better for not cutting weight.

I don't consider it cheating at all. Cutting weight has always been a two-edged sword. Yes you may outweigh your opponent, but you will pay a price in speed/cardio. Look at Frankie Edgar. IMO he should still be the champ at 155. If anything he lost a very close decision to Benson (who was #1). Frankie is a small 155 lber but he gave people issues with his speed and pace.

It's like the recycled HW new breed that we hear about every other year. Guys like Bigfoot, Lesnar, Carwin, everyone said they were too big for guys like Randy, Fedor, CroCop. Then you have JDS and Cain in the 230-240 range dominating the division.

Size obviously matters, but there is clearly a diminishing return on the weight cutting investment.

I actually wouldn't mind to see same day weigh-ins, but this talk about random weigh-ins 5 or 6 weeks out is probably the stupidest thing I have ever heard. Do you have any idea how silly it would be. Most of these guys probably vary 5 lbs or more day to day just from working out and eating/drinking after a training session.
 
NoBiasJustMMA said:
Rampage was most certainly bigger in pride(not talking about fat Rampage) so was Gomi. Shogun might have weighed less, not sure, he had less fat on him but more muscle and muscle weighs more than fat, pictures from weigh ins aren't going to help, guys look much smaller at weigh ins since they are dehydrated. When you have less body fat you may look smaller but if you have more muscle as well you might not weigh less. As for Overeem he weighed around 220-225 when he was cutting to 205.
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Shogun started his career around WW in at least his first fight. He was at his biggest in Pride during his 05 GP run, and against Coleman and Randleman.

Starting with the Diabate fight he slimmed down just slightly and started focusing largely on ground and pound rather than as much on overwhelming guys standing with the pressure and strikes. He kept this relative frame until around the Machida rematch when he looked a little extra pudgy, and for the most part he's looked more 'sturdy' since with a thicker frame. I'd say in the UFC he's looked the best physically against Chuck, though he looked pretty much the same here as at 104 against Machida.

He looked trimmed down in the Te Huna fight, though. He's saying he wants to fight on the September Japan card, so hopefully he'll come in looking light again.
 
OmegaRugal said:
It is indeed "cheating" the system.

Instead of seeing who is the best 170lb champ ... what we get is the best guy tbat can make it to 170lbs the day before and who knows bow much he weighs now.

It cheats the system of having fighters of equal weight because come fight night ... neither fighter has the same weight anymore.

It's one of the main reasons japanese fighters have struggled so much. They dont cut weight so tbey are usually outsized and not outskilled.
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Then they should cut weight. It's not like they don't know about it. High school wrestlers cut weight so I would think that a professional mma fighter would be able to figure it out.
 
Shogun Rising said:
Shogun started his career around WW in at least his first fight. He was at his biggest in Pride during his 05 GP run, and against Coleman and Randleman.

Starting with the Diabate fight he slimmed down just slightly and started focusing largely on ground and pound rather than as much on overwhelming guys standing with the pressure and strikes. He kept this relative frame until around the Machida rematch when he looked a little extra pudgy, and for the most part he's looked more 'sturdy' since with a thicker frame. I'd say in the UFC he's looked the best physically against Chuck, though he looked pretty much the same here as at 104 against Machida.

He looked trimmed down in the Te Huna fight, though. He's saying he wants to fight on the September Japan card, so hopefully he'll come in looking light again.
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I hope so, he's looked good since the Te Huna fight physically, it sucks that he lost to Henderson but when a guy has that much power and hits you only on the nose it's going to end the fight. That fight was the epitome of "shit happens".
 
Mr. Fresca said:
Rogan doesn't make any sense. On one hand he says weight cutting gives you this huge advantage, then on the other hand he claims Thiago is better for not cutting weight.

I don't consider it cheating at all. Cutting weight has always been a two-edged sword. Yes you may outweigh your opponent, but you will pay a price in speed/cardio. Look at Frankie Edgar. IMO he should still be the champ at 155. If anything he lost a very close decision to Benson (who was #1). Frankie is a small 155 lber but he gave people issues with his speed and pace.

It's like the recycled HW new breed that we hear about every other year. Guys like Bigfoot, Lesnar, Carwin, everyone said they were too big for guys like Randy, Fedor, CroCop. Then you have JDS and Cain in the 230-240 range dominating the division.

Size obviously matters, but there is clearly a diminishing return on the weight cutting investment.

I actually wouldn't mind to see same day weigh-ins, but this talk about random weigh-ins 5 or 6 weeks out is probably the stupidest thing I have ever heard. Do you have any idea how silly it would be. Most of these guys probably vary 5 lbs or more day to day just from working out and eating/drinking after a training session.
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In case you didn't take high school Biology genius every human being on the planet isn't identical. Not everybody handles the weight cut the same way, and I am sure it favors Joe Rogan's argument because you would fight better without the cut, and take a better shot. Hey idiot, the point is they are supposed to be within a certain limit of their fight weight, GENIUS! You act like weighing someone is difficult, so what if their weight fluctuates 5 pounds day to day? DOES IT FLUCTUATE 30 POUNDS? NO? THEN SHUT YOUR IGNORANT SELF UP!
 
VPofAtheism said:
In case you didn't take high school Biology genius every human being on the planet isn't identical. Not everybody handles the weight cut the same way, and I am sure it favors Joe Rogan's argument because you would fight better without the cut, and take a better shot. Hey idiot, the point is they are supposed to be within a certain limit of their fight weight, GENIUS! You act like weighing someone is difficult, so what if their weight fluctuates 5 pounds day to day? DOES IT FLUCTUATE 30 POUNDS? NO? THEN SHUT YOUR IGNORANT SELF UP!
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What the hell difference does it make that "every human being is not identical". Some fighters have better chins, some have more reach, some have punching power, some can probably cut weight better. So fucking what. Learn if cutting weight is right for you.

Please explain the parameters and regulations of weighing someone 5-6 weeks out. What would the requirements be?

I'm going to educate you so listen up. Adding muscle and bulking, then subsequently cutting over a period of weeks is normal in just about any sport that requires a combination of strength, speed, and conditioning. Off season is different just the way that in between fights is different.

Go listen to hours and hours of your dream boat's podcast and stfu.

Spread your ass, Mary
 
Mr. Fresca said:
What the hell difference does it make that "every human being is not identical". Some fighters have better chins, some have more reach, some have punching power, some can probably cut weight better. So fucking what. Learn if cutting weight is right for you.

Please explain the parameters and regulations of weighing someone 5-6 weeks out. What would the requirements be?

I'm going to educate you so listen up. Adding muscle and bulking, then subsequently cutting over a period of weeks is normal in just about any sport that requires a combination of strength, speed, and conditioning. Off season is different just the way that in between fights is different.

Go listen to hours and hours of your dream boat's podcast and stfu.

Spread your ass, Mary
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This is the correct response to OP and Rogan.
 
Post Crisis said:
Unlike punching power and chin, weight cutting has jack shit to do with fighting so the point falls flat.
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Why? Reach has jack shit to do with fighting unless you throw a strike or use leverage in grappling. Cardio and lung capacity have jack shit to do with fighting if weight cutting does. It's just another tool.
 
Post Crisis said:
Unlike punching power and chin, weight cutting has jack shit to do with fighting so the point falls flat.
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There has always been weight cutting in MMA ever since they had weight classes, acting like it's a problem because some guys can cut more weight and preform well is stupid, there are/were plenty of guys that didn't cut much weight because they performed better near their walk around weight like Henderson, Edgar, Machida, Frank Shamrock, Bas Rutten ect. It's a part of MMA and isn't a problem, it's just something that the fighters themselves need to figure out, hell Anthony Johnson is a much better at LHW than he ever was at WW.

Having it the way it is makes MMA more interesting and if you tried to change it there would be a lot of problems created, some of which are dangerous to people's health and lives.

I feel like most people who have a problem with weight cutting have never actually cut weight and don't understand that there are positives and negatives to it.
 
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Mr. Fresca said:
Why? Reach has jack shit to do with fighting unless you throw a strike or use leverage in grappling. Cardio and lung capacity have jack shit to do with fighting if weight cutting does. It's just another tool.
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No. All of those directly contribute to fighting. Weight cutting is done to meet a qualifying prerequisite in a class below your own. It's just trying to be as oversized as you can be while still qualifying. I don't think its arbitrary at all to single weight cutting out here. Sure, being bigger directly contributes to a fight, but weight classes were introduced to minimize this advantage. It's a fucking loophole, not a fight attribute.
 
Post Crisis said:
No. All of those directly contribute to fighting. Weight cutting is done to meet a qualifying prerequisite in a class below your own. It's just trying to be as oversized as you can be while still qualifying. I don't think its arbitrary at all to single weight cutting out here. Sure, being bigger directly contributes to a fight, but weight classes were introduced to minimize this advantage. It's a fucking loophole, not a fight attribute.
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It's not a loophole if everyone is able to do the same thing, and yes weight cutting can change your physical attributes for example Frankie Edgar vs Gray Maynard, Gray cuts more weight so he's bigger and stronger however his cardio isn't as good, he isn't as fast and doesn't seem to recover as well as Frankie, some of that has to do with him cutting more weight.

Acting like its a loophole is stupid when everyone can do the same damn thing if they chose to.
 
NoBiasJustMMA said:
There has always been weight cutting in MMA ever since they had weight classes, acting like it's a problem because some guys can cut more weight and preform well is stupid, there are/were plenty of guys that didn't cut much weight because they performed better near their walk around weight like Henderson, Edgar, Machida, Frank Shamrock, Bas Rutten ect. It's a part of MMA and isn't a problem, it's just something that the fighters themselves need to figure out, hell Anthony Johnson is a much better at LHW than he ever was at WW.

Having it the way it is makes MMA more interesting and if you tried to change it there would be a lot of problems created, some of which are dangerous to people's health and lives.

I feel like most people who have a problem with weight cutting have never actually cut weight and don't understand that there are positives and negatives to it.
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The positive is you're bigger than the guys naturally in the weight class. The negative in Anthony Johnson is an anomaly, an outlier. I don't see him as the standard of weight cutting. Guys like most of the top fighters in the sport are the norm. The champs are almost always big in their division. In fact, recently all the top champs had the fights of their lives with guys that matched or oversized them for once. I'm not saying it's the only factor, but at the elite level when it's a battle of inches, it's a gamechanger. The landscape would be entirely different if there were hydration tests at the weigh-ins. However, while I do disagree with the concept, I don't have any solutions or alternatives.
 
Post Crisis said:
The positive is you're bigger than the guys naturally in the weight class. The negative in Anthony Johnson is an anomaly, an outlier. I don't see him as the standard of weight cutting. Guys like most of the top fighters in the sport are the norm. The champs are almost always big in their division. In fact, recently all the top champs had the fights of their lives with guys that matched or oversized them for once. I'm not saying it's the only factor, but at the elite level when it's a battle of inches, it's a gamechanger. The landscape would be entirely different if there were hydration tests at the weigh-ins. However, while I do disagree with the concept, I don't have any solutions or alternatives.
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What about the other guys I mentioned and Shogun and Rashad? They are small for their divisions as well and were champions.

The thing is weight cutting isn't an issue, I don't know why people are trying to make it into one.
 
Why is it that this shit isn't such a big issue with boxing fans? I mean fuck..... yeah, deciding what weight the fight will be at can be an issue sometimes but the whole cutting weight thing no one gives a fuck about.
 
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