Joe Rogan isnt sold on the Bing Bang theory finds Jesus resurrection more plausible

[Motivated BJ Penn]

Why are you leftists so quick to label anyone who doesn't agree with you on these matters, as some kind of religious nut?

I don't know how the universe was created, and neither does anybody else. That's my position. You said "talking donkey". Okay, I raise you "A ball of condensed energy the size of a pinhead, somehow created the entire universe when it exploded".

That second one, is so much more "legit", right? Very science-y. Don't sweat the details too much. A pinhead sized ball of energy exploded and created the universe. End of story. LOL.

The big bang theory doesnt say anything about the creation of the universe. Its more akin to evolution theory than abiogenesis

 

[HereticBD]

The big bang theory doesnt say anything about the creation of the universe

Oh', sorry. It's about the "expansion" of the known universe. So different. Way more credible now.

 

[DoctorTaco]

Why do you always add on to your stuff after I respond chump

My crippling ADD. I fire off quick and the. Think on it a moment later and have more to say or I didn’t like how I said it, lol.

 

[DoctorTaco]

Why are you leftists so quick to label anyone who doesn't agree with you on these matters, as some kind of religious nut?

I thought my post was the exact opposite of what you’re describing. If someone believes in magic bc of their religion then I won’t tease them about it.

 

[heloder]

Why are you leftists so quick to label anyone who doesn't agree with you on these matters, as some kind of religious nut?

I don't know how the universe was created, and neither does anybody else. That's my position. You said "talking donkey". Okay, I raise you "A ball of condensed energy the size of a pinhead, somehow created the entire universe when it exploded".

That second one, is so much more "legit", right? Very science-y. Don't sweat the details too much. A pinhead sized ball of energy exploded and created the universe. End of story. LOL.

A pinhead? You are closer in size to the entire observable universe than a pinhead is to the singularity.

 

[Cajun]

My crippling ADD. I fire off quick and the. Think on it a moment later and have more to say or I didn’t like how I said it, lol.

I do too.... just thought I'd give you a jab

 

[Motivated BJ Penn]

Oh', sorry. It's about the "expansion" of the known universe. So different. Way more credible now.

Well yes its actually alot different, based in observable phenomena like Hubbles law and cosmic background radiation.

 

[Koro_11]

The point is what is best for their survival or what can best limit suffering amongst the members of their social structure can also categorized as compassionate behavior. You were acting as if compassion being a tool of survival means it’s not compassion anymore which isn’t true.


clearly there’s things to gain. Humans are intelligent enough to be aware of the suffering Anne would receive and by hiding her avoid having to live with that distressing knowledge. They are intelligent enough to know the Germans could lose and those who aided them could receive harsh punishment, which is what happened. By not being an accomplice they could believe they’d have support from others if the nazis came for them. They could believe protecting the nonviolent from the violent would promote a more peaceful and thus safer environment in the long run.

Humans are intelligent enough to become aware of the amount of suffering in the world and be motivated to address it at the cost of risking their lives. That seems to be an instance of awareness of suffering reaching a point it conflicts with the drive to live. I don’t think that’s a selfless relationship.


Also we have a shared understanding that if you cross a bridge everyday and one day come across a person drowning that helping them could benefit you or others you care about who may fall off the bridge someday.

Dude you're starting to enter serious mental gymnastics territory to explain away a concept we all understand, including you but you refuse to admit it because you're trying to win an argument. I mean when you try to rationalize hiding Ann Frank as some long term 3-D chess tactic in case the Nazis lose the war, I know there is nothing anyone can say anymore.

Anyway, I think we've hit a wall a long time ago and now we're just repeating the same things over and over again. I've made my case, you don't agree and we can just leave it at that.

 

[Voodoo_Child906]

You keep coming back to the same point which I'm not disagreeing with, and that is the fact that animals will always do what's best for their own survival.

My argument is that humans are the only species that will not only do what's best for their survival, but they will display acts of kindness and compassion even when it has no benefit to themselves... the people who hid Ann Frank in their attic while the Nazis were hunting down Jews didn't do it because it was best for their survival, on the contrary it only put their own survival at risk, yet they risked themselves to help another human being even with nothing to gain.

Humans have developed/evolved empathy, compassion, and moral reasoning as part of our social nature. These emotions can drive people to help others even at great personal risk, especially when they witness suffering or injustice.

Many of us also deeply value human dignity, fairness and doing what they believed was right. Some in Nazi Germany resisted not because they expected reward, but because they couldn’t live with themselves if they didn’t.

 

[HereticBD]

Humans have developed/evolved empathy, compassion, and moral reasoning as part of our social nature. These emotions can drive people to help others even at great personal risk, especially when they witness suffering or injustice.

But why haven't animals done that in the same timeframe?

At the end of the day, we're a wholly unique species on this planet. Why that is, I don't know, but I don't think it's as simple as natural "evolution". There's something special about us.

 

[Voodoo_Child906]

But why haven't animals done that in the same timeframe?

At the end of the day, we're a wholly unique species on this planet. Why that is, I don't know, but I don't think it's as simple as natural "evolution". There's something special about us.

You're right, there is something special about us. Our brains are much more developed, specifically the prefrontal cortex which allows for abstract reasoning, moral judgement, self reflection etc. This is what allows us to act on principles rather than just instincts.

 

[Koro_11]

Humans have developed/evolved empathy, compassion, and moral reasoning as part of our social nature. These emotions can drive people to help others even at great personal risk, especially when they witness suffering or injustice.

Many of us also deeply value human dignity, fairness and doing what they believed was right. Some in Nazi Germany resisted not because they expected reward, but because they couldn’t live with themselves if they didn’t.

Exactly my point, humans live with a greater sense of purpose that goes beyond mere survival and reproduction, which separates us from other lifeforms on this planet.

 

[Voodoo_Child906]

Exactly my point, humans live with a greater sense of purpose that goes beyond mere survival and reproduction, which separates us from other lifeforms on this planet.

Yes our brains are more developed than other species which allows us to reason outside of basic instincts.

 

[Koro_11]

Yes our brains are more developed than other species which allows us to reason outside of basic instincts.

Sure, and then that leads to the question of why?

Why has no other species developed such capacity or even come close to it?

 

[Voodoo_Child906]

Sure, and then that leads to the question of why?

Why has no other species developed such capacity or even come close to it?

It's how we evolved in our genomes and the experiences of our species. For instance, when our ancestors began to stand upright, this freed our hands for tool use, carrying things and manipulating the environment. This led to fire, cooking our food and fueling brain growth. So many other things I could list specific to our human experience that contributed to our brain power today.

 

[shockaholic12]

Dude you're starting to enter serious mental gymnastics territory to explain away a concept we all understand, including you but you refuse to admit it because you're trying to win an argument. I mean when you try to rationalize hiding Ann Frank as some long term 3-D chess tactic in case the Nazis lose the war, I know there is nothing anyone can say anymore.

Anyway, I think we've hit a wall a long time ago and now we're just repeating the same things over and over again. I've made my case, you don't agree and we can just leave it at that.

you are bouncing back and forth from proposing hypothetical universes with consequences-less scenarios and throwing out real life scenarios where you claim there isn’t a consequence or benefit and then getting frustrated when others point out the obvious ones.

 

[Andy Capp]

But I think most mutations aren't going to be intentional, but that certainly doesn't make them random.

Of course, they are. Exploiting people with beneficial mutations that confer an advantage by other members of the species preferentially choosing them as mates doesn't make the mutations any less random, any more than people with detrimental mutations not having mates because they're disadvantaged in some way.

Babies are still being born with random detrimental mutations that result in them not maturing, sadly--though CRISPR was used to cure one such defect in a baby recently.

Doctors Rewrite Baby's DNA in World-First Breakthrough to Cure Disease

Doctors successfully rewrite a British toddler's DNA using CRISPR in a world-first treatment for a rare, life-threatening genetic liver disorder.

www.ibtimes.co.uk

Aside, this is frikken amazing.

After a discussion about this story on the radio this morning, there was an interview with a woman who had this (or a similar mutation) who passed it onto 2 children (who did not survive, sadly) but whose parents didn't carry the mutation. She also had previously had children who were apparently unaffected. It's totally fucking random, friend.

 

[Koro_11]

It's how we evolved in our genomes and the experiences of our species. For instance, when our ancestors began to stand upright, this freed our hands for tool use, carrying things and manipulating the environment. This led to fire, cooking our food and fueling brain growth. So many other things I could list specific to our human experience that contributed to our brain power today.

Yes, I’ve heard the story of how, what I wanna know is why? Why just one species of primate, and nothing else even remotely close?

 

[Andy Capp]

Within their own group, to strengthen their own group, to outnumber the neighbouring group and have a better chance of not getting ripped apart. Animals will do what's best for self preservation and survival, there is no caring or morals involved.

lol

Helping behaviour and regard for others in capuchin monkeys (Cebus apella) - PMC

Altruism is an evolutionary puzzle. To date, much debate has focused on whether helping others without regard to oneself is a uniquely human behaviour, with a variety of empirical studies demonstrating a lack of altruistic behaviour in chimpanzees ...

pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Monkeys Enjoy Giving To Others, Study Finds

Researchers have shown capuchin monkeys, just like humans, find giving to be a satisfying experience. This finding comes on the coattails of a recent imaging study in humans that documented activity in reward centers of the brain after humans gave to charity. Empathy in seeing the pleasure of...

www.sciencedaily.com

Monkeys in the wild have been observed helping other groups, demonstrating complex social behaviors beyond basic survival needs. Capuchin monkeys have shown a capacity for sharing and bartering, even when there's no direct benefit to the helper. Bonobos have been observed cooperating with other bonobo groups, engaging in behaviors like grooming, food sharing, and collective defense. Wild chimps have also been filmed tending to wounds of other animals, suggesting a capacity for empathy. Additionally, some monkeys, like sooty mangabeys, warn other group members about threats, even if the information might not directly benefit them.


Capuchin Monkeys: Capuchin monkeys have demonstrated an ability to help others, even when it's not directly advantageous to them. In experiments, capuchin monkeys have been observed helping another monkey access food, even though a screen blocked the helper from directly benefiting. This suggests a level of cooperation and perhaps even a concept of compensation or gratitude.


Bonobos: Bonobos, known for their peaceful and social nature, have been observed cooperating with other groups, which is a first for primate cooperation. Researchers have documented instances of bonobos from different groups engaging in social interactions like grooming, sharing food, and even defending each other against threats. These interactions were observed over two years, showcasing a nuanced social dynamic and challenging traditional notions of ape societies.

 

[Siver!]

Of course, they are. Exploiting people with beneficial mutations that confer an advantage by other members of the species preferentially choosing them as mates doesn't make the mutations any less random, any more than people with detrimental mutations not having mates because they're disadvantaged in some way.

Babies are still being born with random detrimental mutations that result in them not maturing, sadly--though CRISPR was used to cure one such defect in a baby recently.

Doctors Rewrite Baby's DNA in World-First Breakthrough to Cure Disease

Doctors successfully rewrite a British toddler's DNA using CRISPR in a world-first treatment for a rare, life-threatening genetic liver disorder.

www.ibtimes.co.uk

Aside, this is frikken amazing.

After a discussion about this story on the radio this morning, there was an interview with a woman who had this (or a similar mutation) who passed it onto 2 children (who did not survive, sadly) but whose parents didn't carry the mutation. She also had previously had children who were apparently unaffected. It's totally fucking random, friend.

I like your response, but the focus on extreme short-termism in the context of mutation and evolution feels out-of-synch to me.

I mean, yeah, billions of mutations have probably died out, but the cause of those mutations doesn't necessarily point to 'random' just because we can't see the potential benefit or even if they were actively detrimental.

Life is extremely prone to mutation, yet evolution is unlikely to take hold within a large population for a long period of time.

I don't honestly know how mutation could be provably random given how little we know about contextual/environmental influences. If mutation really was that random, I think we'd all be far more different from each other than we are now.