Joe Louis and the Blackburn Crouch

[Kid Chocolate]

Damn I was sparring today, and I realised that I seriously need to work on my compsoure in the ring. Some of the other guys in the 'group' I was in aren't great, one guy is terrible to put in bluntly and the other guy is okay but still does that thing where he'll aimlessly twitch his body and jump in and out of range. I wasn't sparring these guys mind, that's more why I was noticing these things.

We were just doing various sparring drills against a guy who's about 24 or so and we just alternated in but I like to think I'm far better than the other two, I still have trouble keeping my cool once I get tagged. I don't start flinching like I used to when I first started but I have a tendency to cover up and not think about what I'm doing. I study fight a lot, I read up things like this and other technical things, I love that side of boxing as well as the purely physical side but I struggle to put it into practice in the ring. In other words, a lot of the time I know what to do but I just can't do it once the punches start flying and I get sucked into being really wild.

 

[Sinister]

You need to use more drills designed to program your responses. Like the jab drill shown on my Company's youtube page.

 

[Lucas Coradini]

That's smart stuff right there. Good one.

oh, thank you, my friend. I'm accepting sugestions on what to do after when I choose the soft rear hand... usually I'm just pivoting myself (or ducking my head) out of the way, both against southpaws and orthodox

 

[Sinister]

Try following it with a lead uppercut. Just make sure your head and weight come back towards the back foot when you throw it.

 

[Kid Chocolate]

You need to use more drills designed to program your responses. Like the jab drill shown on my Company's youtube page.

I think so, we did a drill designed for that sort of thing but we don't do it often enough. It was basically one guy in the middle of the ring, had to move around the middle of the ring without his lead foot leaving the centre, the other guy just through non stop punches. Not with full force just to get you used to being under pressure.

I'll maybe just practice it outside of training with one of the other guys.

 

[Nuclearlandmine]

Bump this thread up. This is for anyone who still staunchly defend using the typical "HANDS UP" as proper/textbook defense.

 

[Cyclone Mike]

What can be said about Joes feints? I understand the idea of the virtual threats coming from the stance, but what about threats based on movement?

 

[Sinister]

He was very good at feinting. As we discussed at the Gym he was even good at throw-away punches, punches he didn't necessarily intend to land, but followed up with the punch he thought would land. I recall a quote of his in a Chapter of a book about Blackburn where he was describing I think Conn, he said:

"He was a very tricky fighter. Chappy (Blackburn) wanted me to land the right hand, but he was very difficult to put in position to land the right hand on him."

Who says stuff like that anymore?

 

[Marbig]

Just bumping this thread to give it some life because its amazing.

While I'm at it, I may as well ask you guys a question:

I've been trying to implement this in sparring and so far I have been mostly successful. However, given that I have been dabbling in MMA as of late, I have also raised the arms up to protect myself from kicks etc. This leaves my body open (just like most stances) because of the fact that I'm not angled entirely horizontally. I sparred with a pro and one of the things he would do to get me is to feint the jab so I raise my lead hand even more than quickly throw a hook to my body while pivoting to the left. This way I can't even counter punch him. I also get caught a lot with the feinted jab and the straight right to the body.

Any advice on how to stop this?

 

[Discipulus]

Just bumping this thread to give it some life because its amazing.

While I'm at it, I may as well ask you guys a question:

I've been trying to implement this in sparring and so far I have been mostly successful. However, given that I have been dabbling in MMA as of late, I have also raised the arms up to protect myself from kicks etc. This leaves my body open (just like most stances) because of the fact that I'm not angled entirely horizontally. I sparred with a pro and one of the things he would do to get me is to feint the jab so I raise my lead hand even more than quickly throw a hook to my body while pivoting to the left. This way I can't even counter punch him. I also get caught a lot with the feinted jab and the straight right to the body.

Any advice on how to stop this?

Why are you lifting your lead hand to stop a jab? If you can see him going for the bodyshot, a short right or uppercut would do the trick. You can always pivot with him when he steps off-line to land that hook, too, which should help take some power out of the shot while giving you a strong angle to counter him.

 

[Marbig]

Why are you lifting your lead hand to stop a jab? If you can see him going for the bodyshot, a short right or uppercut would do the trick. You can always pivot with him when he steps off-line to land that hook, too, which should help take some power out of the shot while giving you a strong angle to counter him.

To parry it lol.

I can't see if its a bodyshot or a right hand though. That's the problem. He mixes up his combos too well and he's too fast.

 

[Discipulus]

Don't parry a jab with your lead hand. Use your rear hand or dodge the punch. In either case, use your arms to protect your body throughout the movement.

 

[Marbig]

Don't parry a jab with your lead hand. Use your rear hand or dodge the punch. In either case, use your arms to protect your body throughout the movement.

Is there a reason why? I would think it was the opposite seeing how if your lead hand fails and they are aiming at your head, you still have your rear hand left.

Also, its damn hard to slip to the inside with this guard lol (even though slipping to the inside is generally considered a big no-no).

 

[Discipulus]

The stance or guard discussed in this thread shouldn't make any kind of slipping difficult. In fact, it should help you make smaller, more precise movements.

In any case, your lead hand is your threat hand. If your opponent knows he can take that hand out of the equation by simply throwing a jab at you, he's going to do just that. He'll jab, you'll try to parry, and he'll step in and shoot his right hand down the nice little hole you just made in your own defense.

A big part of defense is implication. You can keep a lot of people from hitting you simply by implying that you are ready to jab them, hard and often. If your lead hand is always actively defending, then you'll pose a significantly lesser threat.

 

[Discipulus]

To parry it lol.

I can't see if its a bodyshot or a right hand though. That's the problem. He mixes up his combos too well and he's too fast.

Also, you're taking away your own jab, which is the simplest and most reliable counter to the opponent's jab.

 

[Marbig]

The stance or guard discussed in this thread shouldn't make any kind of slipping difficult. In fact, it should help you make smaller, more precise movements.

In any case, your lead hand is your threat hand. If your opponent knows he can take that hand out of the equation by simply throwing a jab at you, he's going to do just that. He'll jab, you'll try to parry, and he'll step in and shoot his right hand down the nice little hole you just made in your own defense.

A big part of defense is implication. You can keep a lot of people from hitting you simply by implying that you are ready to jab them, hard and often. If your lead hand is always actively defending, then you'll pose a significantly lesser threat.

I see your point about the threat hand and the idea of implication (is this what Sinister was saying when he said the lead hand should be held out as if you were holding a knife?). A question though: how far out should you hold it before the power of the jab starts to become compromised (due to less extension)?

As for slipping, the way I do the crouch (I'm not saying this is right btw, just the way I imagine it) somehow limits my range of motion. Fyi, to get the bend over part (yet keeping my back straight), my hips are scooted backwards like I'm getting ready to deadlift (or sit in a chair). Am I doing it right?

 

[Zephyros]

To play devil's advocate for a bit, there are some limited conditions in which you can parry a jab with your lead hand - assuming in this case that you and your opponent is are in a closed stance position. To illustrate what shouldn't happen: If you're really reaching across your own body in order to parry the jab with your lead, chances are your positioning is ill-suited to parry in that manner, and you're very vulnerable to a rear straight.

 

[Cyclone Mike]

In case yall haven't seen this documentary... Highly recommend it.

 

[Babba]

I stop the jab with my front hand / arm / shoulder all the time, don't see the problem. stop it and hook over his jab if you've the the possibility, stop his jab directly jab his body.. stop jab front hand uppercut, stop jab with front hand lunging back hand straight etc. i don't see the problem.. it's situational..

 

[shpboris]

This looks like a good example of parrying the jab with the lead hand against VERY good and tall opponent

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