"Jerk" moves in BJJ?

[Marbig]

Hi all,
How are we doing? I've been going from one gym to another for some time now just to try out different gyms. On Friday, I went to check out another BJJ school with one of my friends who also wanted to try the art. Naturally, both of us got to spar near the end of the class.

For the first two rounds, I didn't have any problems at all. I sparred with two guys who were a bit larger so I just played closed/spider guard like I normally would. I got tapped by one of them I think but there is nothing really wrong with that per say.

When we changed partners for the third round though, I was paired up with a guy my size. That is great news for me as I finally got the opportunity to work on my top game (not too often as I am barely 150lb). However, when I finally got kesa-gatame on him, he muttered something along the lines of "you aren't meant to be doing that". Now I had no idea what he was talking about at this point so (after glancing over to make sure he wasn't choking/injured) I transitioned into side control to try for a kimura. I didn't get the kimura but I did notice there was a little space between his head and shoulders so I went for a choke instead. I don't know the name of it (since the move was taught by a sparring partner) but its where you put your body weight onto your shoulder and your elbow on the person's neck. You kind of push in and upwards with your elbow until your partner taps out (or you lose position). Long story short, that move was a success and my guy tapped.

Now normally there will be like a ten second break before we slap hands, fist bump and continue the spar. However, this guy stood up after tapping which I thought was strange. I asked him if he was okay and at this point he turned around and told me I was very rude towards him.

I asked how.

Apparently, I wasn't meant to be pulling on his arm while driving my chest into his face during kesa gatame. I also wasn't meant to be driving my shoulder down when in side control. The choke I applied was also almost like "physical assault"?

Was I doing the wrong thing? I didn't mean the dude any harm and I just applied the moves as taught by various instructors. I mean I was always told the shoulder on face thing helps lock my opponent's face to one direction which in turn stops them from bridging and reversing me (this is especially important as again I am light in weight). I certainly wasn't trying to be rude towards him. That being said, was I rude? Were these moves really inappropriate to pull off? What other things am I not meant to be doing (so I can avoid them in the future)?

Thanks!

 

[APWiseman]

Tell him to man the f**k up, it's not like you were neck-cranking, spine-locking, or doing a heel-hook.

I think you were applying a paper-cutter choke?

 

[Einarr]

You did nothing wrong. Scarfhold is meant to be a crushing position. The Papercutter Choke is perfectly legal. And cross-facing hard is fine so long as you aren't doing it just to hurt the guy.

 

[RTD1]

Honestly, if someone is going to complain about their arm being pulled and too much chest pressure from kesa gatame, they probably shouldn't be involved in a grappling sport.

 

[LaBrian]

There are plenty of jerk moves I wouldn't do with a training partner but that is not one of them. He was probably just mad that someone his size beat him.

 

[Bigfoot Sylvia]

I just stopped going for kimuras. they got me in horrible positions lol

 

[Calibur]

That's what people say when they come up thinking kesa gatame is a worthless position....

....and than realize they can't escape from one.

Silly biatches

 

[BadassMMAdude***]

That's the problem with BJJ, pussys everywhere. I remeber one time I trained at a BJJ school and I couldn't do leg attacks. Than I toke them one for one with guillotine chokes and than they said it's dangerious, and that I was doing bad because I used strength in state of technique. Than they put me up with the best guy the gym a brown belt, who was a lot heavier than me. And all was screaming his name, and he needed to beat me and stuff. I felt so angry, I pulled him up on my shoulder, pushed him against the wall, and front choked him in the neck with one hand till he got out. Than I walked away. I nevery go bjj again, fucking pajama pussy's.

When we grapple with MMA, we do everything. Like dribble your leg in your opponents face for the armbar.

 

[Iarphairc]

In the last one..Are you in side control just putting all your weight on your forearm on his neck? I'd call that a dick move tbh. I havent learned a choke like this so I dont realy know but sounds pretty dickish to me..Giving out about kesa gatame is ridiculous though!

If I was mounted and the guy was putting his body weight on my neck via forearm I'd be pretty pissed. Kinda a dick move and I would sure as hell be going to knee on belly and pulling his neck as hard as possible towards me( fwiw I think KoB is perfectly normal but you know the kinda KoB Im talking about )

 

[BJ@LW&WW]

I could see how a poorly applied paper cutter might piss someone off (assuming it was poorly applied) because it can be a lot of trachea pressure, but he's being a pussy about all that other stuff.

That's the problem with BJJ, pussys everywhere. I remeber one time I trained at a BJJ school and I couldn't do leg attacks. Than I toke them one for one with guillotine chokes and than they said it's dangerious, and that I was doing bad because I used strength in state of technique. Than they put me up with the best guy the gym a brown belt, who was a lot heavier than me. And all was screaming his name, and he needed to beat me and stuff. I felt so angry, I pulled him up on my shoulder, pushed him against the wall, and front choked him in the neck with one hand till he got out. Than I walked away. I nevery go bjj again, fucking pajama pussy's.

When we grapple with MMA, we do everything. Like dribble your leg in your opponents face for the armbar.

lol that was somewhat believable at first. 7/10.

 

[Crossface9]

Tell him he needs to grow a pair. It's so stupid when people whine like that in a COMBAT sport. All is fair, if you are safe and conscious of the other guy.

 

[eddie t]

In the last one..Are you in side control just putting all your weight on your forearm on his neck? I'd call that a dick move tbh. I havent learned a choke like this so I dont realy know but sounds pretty dickish to me..Giving out about kesa gatame is ridiculous though!

If I was mounted and the guy was putting his body weight on my neck via forearm I'd be pretty pissed. Kinda a dick move and I would sure as hell be going to knee on belly and pulling his neck as hard as possible towards me( fwiw I think KoB is perfectly normal but you know the kinda KoB Im talking about )

Whats the problem with the forearm across the throat? Its a crap technique and easy to defend or you can just tap if it bothers you.

The only real jerk moves for me are neck cranks and heel hooks without previously having agreed on them.

A bigger jerk move is complaining about a heavy cross face or crying if you use leglocks or roll hard.

 

[biscuitsbrah]

These 'technique only- gentle art' guys are going to get a rude awakening if they ever have to actually compete or grapple for their life

 

[orangeclay]

All of that sounds just fine. It does sound like you might have been doing the paper cutter choke a bit wrong, which could be annoying to your partner, but he has the option to tap. From your description it sounds like you might have been jabbing a bit more than needed with your elbow versus applying steady pressure through correct positioning.

Just a thought - but if you are used to rolling with larger guys it might be that you have grown to rely on some painful/pressure moves to help control the big guys and these moves are perceived as dickish when rolling with someone your own size or smaller who -- within his own gym -- may not have had any of the larger guys do any of these things to him since they are aware of the size differential. Again, not that these are dick moves, just that they may be new to your partner.

 

[Mocex]

I like to crank hard on rnc or something if i manage to take back of guys who dig their forearm into my jaw or face in roll I go lightly.Yes,Im talking about naughty fist grip RNC on their windpipe.hard.naughty,followed by coughing .

If i dont dig my elbow in your neck while Im in side control,why would u do it?

I m not talking about crossface while trying to pass.

 

[Vitamin C]

Maybe he meant visitors aren't supposed to win. Lol. Ts, you didn't do anything wrong, but I feel like you know that already.

 

[AllKnowing]

The paper cutter choke is rarely done correctly by new guys. It almost always turns into just smashing your forearm into somebodies throat. Since doing the technique improperly causes pain and discomfort over actual choking, I can see how it would be viewed as jerk move.

That said, this isn't checkers. Part of the game if you ask me.

 

[FinBJJ]

The dude sounds like a pansy

That's the problem with BJJ, pussys everywhere. I remeber one time I trained at a BJJ school and I couldn't do leg attacks. Than I toke them one for one with guillotine chokes and than they said it's dangerious, and that I was doing bad because I used strength in state of technique. Than they put me up with the best guy the gym a brown belt, who was a lot heavier than me. And all was screaming his name, and he needed to beat me and stuff. I felt so angry, I pulled him up on my shoulder, pushed him against the wall, and front choked him in the neck with one hand till he got out. Than I walked away. I nevery go bjj again, fucking pajama pussy's.

When we grapple with MMA, we do everything. Like dribble your leg in your opponents face for the armbar.

BadassMMAdude is just screaming troll account.

 

[Alex88]

The paper cutter choke is rarely done correctly by new guys. It almost always turns into just smashing your forearm into somebodies throat. Since doing the technique improperly causes pain and discomfort over actual choking, I can see how it would be viewed as jerk move.

That said, this isn't checkers. Part of the game if you ask me.

Nothing wrong with that.

 

[Rod1]

The paper cutter choke is rarely done correctly by new guys. It almost always turns into just smashing your forearm into somebodies throat. Since doing the technique improperly causes pain and discomfort over actual choking, I can see how it would be viewed as jerk move.

That said, this isn't checkers. Part of the game if you ask me.

But the guy tapped that meant it was ok.

To me there are only 2 types of jerk moves.

1.- A move that doesnt actually accomplishes anything but annoy the opponen, like if i have reverse kesa and you trapped my head with your legs and just squeeze, you know that without an arm inside and in that position you will only apply pressure and some friction (if gi) to the head, it doesnt taps anyone.

2.- A move that its clearly illegal in the context of the match, for example going for a heel hook in a BJJ gym or going for a toe holds or kneebars against whites or blues without making an agreement.

Number 2 is a major beef of mine, a lot of veteran purples and browns just think that because they are not allowed to use leglocks in competition, they can do them freely against blues and whites that have never seen them. Leglocks arent allowed in brown because you know how to use them, but because you are in a position to understand and asses the danger of receiving them. A white belt on a toe hold, will only tap until there is pain, and by then its already too damn late.