"Jerk" moves in BJJ?

[AllKnowing]

Nothing wrong with that.

Can't say I agree in terms of training regularly with friends and classmates.

What rank are you btw? Against advanced ranks, you're not accomplishing anything by using shoddy technique. Except maybe pissing off someone better than you.

 

[BJ@LW&WW]

Nothing wrong with that.

I would say in regular training, crushing your opponents trachea is bad etiquette. There's a difference in something being legal/allowed, and something being good etiquette. Bruised tracheas last for days and is annoying as hell. No one in the gym I train at would crush a teammates trachea.

 

[Rod1]

I would say in regular training, crushing your opponents trachea is bad etiquette. There's a difference in something being legal/allowed, and something being good etiquette. Bruised tracheas last for days and is annoying as hell. No one in the gym I train at would crush a teammates trachea.

You can always tap.

 

[BJ@LW&WW]

But then you would be positively reinforcing a technique that isn't necessarily effective..

 

[AllKnowing]

But the guy tapped that meant it was ok.

To me there are only 2 types of jerk moves.

1.- A move that doesnt actually accomplishes anything but annoy the opponen, like if i have reverse kesa and you trapped my head with your legs and just squeeze, you know that without an arm inside and in that position you will only apply pressure and some friction (if gi) to the head, it doesnt taps anyone.

2.- A move that its clearly illegal in the context of the match, for example going for a heel hook in a BJJ gym or going for a toe holds or kneebars against whites or blues without making an agreement.

Number 2 is a major beef of mine, a lot of veteran purples and browns just think that because they are not allowed to use leglocks in competition, they can do them freely against blues and whites that have never seen them. Leglocks arent allowed in brown because you know how to use them, but because you are in a position to understand and asses the danger of receiving them. A white belt on a toe hold, will only tap until there is pain, and by then its already too damn late.

I agree with your examples for the most part. That said, there are some techniques that are bad form to use in day to day training. For guys who train as a hobby (especially new guy) I'm sure they don't want to always worry about getting their throat crushed.

 

[Naja]

Man the problem is not in the moves, maybe you did use strenght and due to your bad technique you hurted him (just a hypothesis). Some lower belts don't take notice of how strong they are and the amount of strenght they put in a position. Otherwise the guy is just a sissy.

 

[mmafan0]

Here are some examples of bad etiquette that come to mind:

1. Continuing to pull the collars or lapels hard across an opponents face after going too high on a choke. This serves no purpose except to cause pain and mess up their face.

2. Intentionally crushing your opponent's face or groin with your knee or the outside of your elbow.

3. As a higher belt, performing a leg lock or other submission on a white belt that they are not allowed to do back. Even if you try to do it safely, WBs can still hurt themselves trying to escape because they don't know how (example: they twist their own knee).

4. Try to surprise your opponent by tackling them after a fake fist bump, or jumping on them when you know they are not ready yet. This is just bad sportsmanship.

5. Doing things outside of what your instructor says you're supposed to be practicing. Example: You instructor says sweep/pass only, and you go for a submission.

6. Edit: Forgot to add... intentional pinching.

 

[BJ@LW&WW]

Here are some examples of bad etiquette that come to mind:

1. Continuing to pull the collars or lapels hard across an opponents face after going too high on a choke. This serves no purpose except to cause pain and mess up their face.

2. Intentionally crushing your opponent's face or groin with your knee or the outside of your elbow.

4. Try to surprise your opponent by tackling them after a fake fist bump, or jumping on them when you know they are not ready yet. This is just bad sportsmanship.

i totally agree with 1 and 2. someone could reply with the same 'well u can just tap' for those situations as well. that wouldn't be productive for either party.

as for #4, people do that in our gym but it's more playful than anything. id ont think anyone really minds it.

 

[Rod1]

i totally agree with 1 and 2. someone could reply with the same 'well u can just tap' for those situations as well. that wouldn't be productive for either party.

as for #4, people do that in our gym but it's more playful than anything. id ont think anyone really minds it.

Tucking your chin its not a valid choke defense.

 

[BJ@LW&WW]

I never said or implied it was.. are you just being intentionally dense?

 

[mmafan0]

Tucking your chin its not a valid choke defense.

My point was I've rolled with guys who did this regardless of where the chin is. I wrote "after going to high on a choke", but I probably should have wrote "does this on purpose".

 

[mmafan0]

i
as for #4, people do that in our gym but it's more playful than anything. id ont think anyone really minds it.

I can see that, but I once had an injury made worse by a spaz-tastic 250 lb. white belt who jumped on my back when we were supposed to be switching partners... and I was still trying to get up from a previous roll in which I got injured. It was not done playfully.

 

[Einarr]

Yes,Im talking about naughty fist grip RNC on their windpipe.hard.naughty,followed by coughing .

There's nothing wrong with that style of RNC, trachea chokes are legit. IMO, the Short/Soup/Fedor Choke is a better option in the gi than the Mata Leao - it's harder to sink in the Mata Leao due to the added friction and having to get your choking arm further through, and it's also easier to switch to and from a Bow and Arrow Choke. When your opponent is prone it's also very hard to get your arm through for a Mata Leao, apart from a collar choke the best option in this situation is a Short Choke.

 

[Limatime]

I think it's kind of douchey when people have the back and squeeze a figure four body lock on someone's ribs. And I'm not talking about maintaining the back with a figure four, but intentionally cranking on the ribs. For higher belts in a tournament it's probably fine, but I don't really appreciate it in the academy.

 

[BJJ Beginner]

In the last one..Are you in side control just putting all your weight on your forearm on his neck? I'd call that a dick move tbh. I havent learned a choke like this so I dont realy know but sounds pretty dickish to me..Giving out about kesa gatame is ridiculous though!

If I was mounted and the guy was putting his body weight on my neck via forearm I'd be pretty pissed. Kinda a dick move and I would sure as hell be going to knee on belly and pulling his neck as hard as possible towards me( fwiw I think KoB is perfectly normal but you know the kinda KoB Im talking about )

It's first and foremost a means of applying pressure but it can certainly choke the opponent out. More likely he will react by using his arms to relieve the pressure, thus opening him up for attack. It's a legitimate technique that used to be commonplace but now is considered a "dick move" by modern pussy BJJ practitioners.

 

[jujijimmy]

problem is there are lots of different people who train at different intensities/skill level then you have different sizes/ages etc. I train with one guy who trys to give me pain so in return I will do the same. others are inexperienced and don't know what they are doing. if someone who is of equal or above experience is giving me pain I will try to give it them back plus a bit more

 

[DanOfEarth]

Tucking your chin its not a valid choke defense.

haha

 

[SuperSuperRambo]

Apparently, I wasn't meant to be pulling on his arm while driving my chest into his face during kesa gatame. I also wasn't meant to be driving my shoulder down when in side control. The choke I applied was also almost like "physical assault"?

If what you did is actually as you described it (and no offense, but people often have skewed perspectives of their own actions), then you did nothing wrong. Kesa Gatame is supposed to be heavy, you're supposed to draw the near arm up, and in a traditional side control you're supposed to apply shoulder pressure. The choke you applied is called a papercutter choke by most, and even if you were forcing it and not doing it right, it's a perfectly legal choke.

From the sounds of it, if the story is really as you're telling it, it's just a guy who's pissed about getting tapped, for whatever reason.

 

[SuperSuperRambo]

In the last one..Are you in side control just putting all your weight on your forearm on his neck? I'd call that a dick move tbh. I havent learned a choke like this so I dont realy know but sounds pretty dickish to me..Giving out about kesa gatame is ridiculous though!

What's dickish about it? Ineffective and strength-based, sure. But if it is a crappy technique, then who cares? And if it's actually effective for something, then it's totally fine.

People need to stop complaining about things like this. If it's not unnecessarily dangerous, or painful with no practical aspect, then it's either an effective move that you don't like or aren't good at so you've been taught that it's bad, or it's a noobish strength-based crappy move and if you're even a reasonably competent grappler you should be able to exploit the mistake.

 

[SuperSuperRambo]

There's nothing wrong with that style of RNC, trachea chokes are legit. IMO, the Short/Soup/Fedor Choke is a better option in the gi than the Mata Leao - it's harder to sink in the Mata Leao due to the added friction and having to get your choking arm further through, and it's also easier to switch to and from a Bow and Arrow Choke. When your opponent is prone it's also very hard to get your arm through for a Mata Leao, apart from a collar choke the best option in this situation is a Short Choke.

Agree. It's totally legit. Although after years of playing with both options, I strongly prefer the RNC grip in no gi, but will use the short choke version against a really big strong guy when I need to go for it quick. In the gi I go for gi chokes from the back 99% of the time.