"Jerk" moves in BJJ?

[SuperSuperRambo]

But then you would be positively reinforcing a technique that isn't necessarily effective..

If they tap then it was effective. Rodrigo Gracie used to always tell my instructor "If he taps, it's Jiu Jitsu." If it turns out to be garbage technique in the long run, then as John Danaher always says, BJJ is self-correcting. It will stop working, and the person will stop using it. But if it gets a tap, then the person who got tapped with an ineffective technique is the one who needs to do something differently.

 

[BJ@LW&WW]

If they tap then it was effective. Rodrigo Gracie used to always tell my instructor "If he taps, it's Jiu Jitsu." If it turns out to be garbage technique in the long run, then as John Danaher always says, BJJ is self-correcting. It will stop working, and the person will stop using it. But if it gets a tap, then the person who got tapped with an ineffective technique is the one who needs to do something differently.

But it is possible for it to be 'effective' the sense that it causes small undesirable effects, i.e. gi burn, sore neck, etc., but not effective enough that if you were in a tournament or a real fight, you would ever tap to that.

 

[Einarr]

Agree. It's totally legit. Although after years of playing with both options, I strongly prefer the RNC grip in no gi, but will use the short choke version against a really big strong guy when I need to go for it quick. In the gi I go for gi chokes from the back 99% of the time.

Same. I just think it's hard to get there in a gi.

 

[orangeclay]

But it is possible for it to be 'effective' the sense that it causes small undesirable effects, i.e. gi burn, sore neck, etc., but not effective enough that if you were in a tournament or a real fight, you would ever tap to that.

I have rolled with people who do things that while they wouldn't work in a tournament or on someone else but work with me. And, I wouldn't call them jerk moves.

For instance, in the past I had loads of dental work so at the time I would tap to face pressure pretty quickly. The people I rolled with often knew this so it didn't come up much. But... when I trained with someone who applied loads of face pressure I would then tap - no problem for me. When I rolled with them, I worked on avoiding those positions. If someone really wanted to tap me on face pressure then they were welcome to go for it. I am pretty sure they were getting nothing out of what they were learning but I was not getting hurt and I was still learning plenty by working on how to avoid that position in the first place.

To me the real jerk move is not stopping something after someone taps. That has happened to me and that is a jerk move.

The other jerk move to me is going for a submission 100% when just rolling, especially something like the Kimura where their is a real possibility of injury. I'll take some gi burn or a sore neck over this any day.

 

[BJ@LW&WW]

To me the real jerk move is not stopping something after someone taps. That has happened to me and that is a jerk move.

The other jerk move to me is going for a submission 100% when just rolling, especially something like the Kimura where their is a real possibility of injury. I'll take some gi burn or a sore neck over this any day.

i agree w that, but that goes beyond the point of etiquette. intentionally not stopping after a tap is straight fucke dup

 

[Thaijitsu612]

Guess I'll be put in the category of bjj pussy but imo if someone is just driving their elbow into someone's Adams Apple its a dick move. I wouldn't complain about it but I'd up my own intensity in turn.

 

[ironwolf]

Tell that guy to stop being a bitch and man the F%#^ up....

you did nothing wrong.

 

[oopoe]

It's been said, but I agree with the idea that the only moves considered dick moves would be illegal techniques at the relevant belt, and anything that targets an area the opponent has injured.

 

[TeamKenpo]

If they tap then it was effective. Rodrigo Gracie used to always tell my instructor "If he taps, it's Jiu Jitsu." If it turns out to be garbage technique in the long run, then as John Danaher always says, BJJ is self-correcting. It will stop working, and the person will stop using it. But if it gets a tap, then the person who got tapped with an ineffective technique is the one who needs to do something differently.

Well said.

The other day, I was tapped via smother...just straight up couldn't breathe. I must admit I was pretty annoyed about it at first, kind of thinking of it as a cheap submission.

But, I was the guy who fell for it, and I quickly learned to not let that kind of thing happen again. So in hind sight, it was probably a good wake up call for me.

 

[okyoureright]

Here's one I've been pondering:

Sometimes when I'm caught in a triangle I try to kick my leg over their face/chest to begin my escape. Problem is I have short legs so even getting my leg across their face is hard sometimes. A couple times I've basically placed my hand on their face to get some leverage. For reference, I'm standing and their hips are still on the ground. Is the hand in the face "dirty"? It's not meant to cause discomfort but I can see how it might. Nobody has ever complained before. Thanks for the responses.

 

[sb413197]

What you were doing "wrong" is that you tapped him and he didn't want to be tapped.

You did nothing wrong. Sounds like the other guy has an ego. Sometimes when guys get tapped they say/do very weird stuff because their ego is bruised.

Nasty moves that are "legal" but probably are best avoided would include skull rides (knee on head), elbow/forearm on face or eye socket, doing rear-naked chokes on your opponent's face/nose and so forth - basically stuff that hurts someone without accomplishing anything. Breadcutter/papercutter choke is fine and is a very old and well respected submission.

 

[texastwisties]

I was kneeling and someone stood up - took my back - and pulled me backwards.

f'ed up my toe / foot / bone near my knee.

im standing up next time...

 

[AllKnowing]

I was kneeling and someone stood up - took my back - and pulled me backwards.

f'ed up my toe / foot / bone near my knee.

im standing up next time...

I won't lie, that shit pisses me off.

 

[junco]

I was kneeling and someone stood up - took my back - and pulled me backwards.

f'ed up my toe / foot / bone near my knee.

im standing up next time...

Or just keep facing them. If you're on your knees (or even on your butt) and somebody is able to just stand up and walk around to your back, you're doing something wrong.

 

[LaBrian]

I have rolled with people who do things that while they wouldn't work in a tournament or on someone else but work with me. And, I wouldn't call them jerk moves.

For instance, in the past I had loads of dental work so at the time I would tap to face pressure pretty quickly. The people I rolled with often knew this so it didn't come up much. But... when I trained with someone who applied loads of face pressure I would then tap - no problem for me. When I rolled with them, I worked on avoiding those positions. If someone really wanted to tap me on face pressure then they were welcome to go for it. I am pretty sure they were getting nothing out of what they were learning but I was not getting hurt and I was still learning plenty by working on how to avoid that position in the first place.

To me the real jerk move is not stopping something after someone taps. That has happened to me and that is a jerk move.

The other jerk move to me is going for a submission 100% when just rolling, especially something like the Kimura where their is a real possibility of injury. I'll take some gi burn or a sore neck over this any day.

I have a similar thing with my neck. I have 2 pinched nerves, so I really don't like anyone grabbing on my head and yanking. I work hard to keep myself out of those positions of course, but if it happens I just tap. For example pulling down on the head to finish a triangle. I just tap, in a tournament I can gut it out, but in training, its not worth the wear and tear on my neck. Most of the people I train with regularly don't do it cause they know I'm just gonna tap the second they touch my head and it doesn't really help their technique to get a tap they wouldn't get normally.

 

[HIMBOB]

Well said.

The other day, I was tapped via smother...just straight up couldn't breathe. I must admit I was pretty annoyed about it at first, kind of thinking of it as a cheap submission.

But, I was the guy who fell for it, and I quickly learned to not let that kind of thing happen again. So in hind sight, it was probably a good wake up call for me.

Last week I tapped to a guy inside my guard.

feels bad man.

 

[Colossal Squid**]

Last week I tapped to a guy inside my guard.

feels bad man.

What did you tap to?

 

[HIMBOB]

What did you tap to?

He had one hand on my collar and was pulling that across my neck, so basically it was his knuckles in my throat with his arms dead straight. He was about 30-40 pounds heavier but the real issue was he had super long arms, I am 6'2" with long reach for my height, so its rare for me to be giving away a large rech advantage.

I know I should have arm barred him, but was just too damn tired to even think.

Actually going to change up how I train as a result of this. Not because I tappe to that but because I was honestly too tired to even think of an escape.