Jeet Kune Do

[Zisteau]

Wing Chun is the base of Jeet Kune Do, "The Way of the Intercepting Fist" He added tools from other arts as he saw fit.

Wing Chun was the first martial art he learned, but it's role in JKD is only as a piece of the puzzle. The real 'base' of JKD, if you want to say there is one, is the way the human body moves. In JKD, the trapping derived from Wing Chun should only ever be empasized as an element to a fight. It is what happens in the middle, when arms get locked up. It should never be the beginning, middle, and end of a fight.

 

[Too Defensive**]

Wing Chun is the base of Jeet Kune Do, "The Way of the Intercepting Fist" He added tools from other arts as he saw fit.

No. Boxing and Western fencing are. Boxing footwork, with saber fencing principles.

 

[Shulom1***]

No. Boxing and Western fencing are. Boxing footwork, with saber fencing principles.

where did the kicks come from? Savate and Muay Thai. Boxing for hands, Savate/Muay Thai for kicks WC for one little range called trapping range, Fencing strategy, with Judo, Small circle JJ and Catch for grappling. That is Jun Fan Gung Fu or Original JKD.

Heres a some quotes from the Tao, that contradict every OJKD person out there.

"If you want to understand the truth of martial arts, to see any opponent clearly, you must throw away the notion of STYLES and SCHOOLS, prejudices, likes and dislikes, and so forth. Then your mind will cease all conflict and come to rest. In this silence, you will see totally and freshly." p. 17

"The classical man is just a bundle of routine, ideas, and tradition. when he acts, he is translating every living moment in terms of the old" p.16
( sounds like OJKD people are nothing but classical men, huh?)

"Each man belongs to a STYLE ( OJKD) which CLAIMS to possess the truth to the EXCLUSION of ALL OTHER styles. These STYLES become institutes withe THEIR EXPLANATION of THE WAY. dissecting and isolating the harmony of firmness and gentleness, establishing rhythmic forms as the particular state of their techniques."p.14
( So, OJKD is better than all other arts, huh? How disconcerting.)

"Styles tend to not only separate men - because they have their own doctrines and then the doctrine became the gospel truth that you cannot change. But if you do not have a style, if you just say: Well, here I am as a human being, how can I express myself totally and completely? Now, that way you won't create a style, because style is a crystallization. That way, it's a process of continuing growth. " from an interview

"Self knowledge is the basis of JKD, because it is effective, NOT ONLY FOR THE INDIVIDUALS MARTIAL ART, but also his life as a human being" p.208

"If people say JKD is different from "this" or from "that", then let the name of Jeet Kune Do be wiped out, for that is JUST WHAT IT IS, JUST A NAME. PLEASE DON"T FUSS OVER IT" p.208

"Jeet Kune Do favors FORMLESSNESS so that it can ASSUME ALL FORMS and since JKD HAS NO STYLE, IT CAN FIT IN WITH ALL STYLES. AS A RESULT, JKD UTILIZES ALL FORMS AND IS BOUND BY NONE, and likewise uses any techniques or means which serve it's end" p.12

"The art of JKD is simply to simplify. It is being oneself( Not a Bruce Lee LARPer, like some people are); it is reality in it's "isness" Thus isness is trhe meaning- having freedom in it's primary sense, NOT limited to attachments, confinements, partialization, complexities" p.12
( OJKD is just another confinement of techniques)

YOU have been facted. If philosophy is to hard to understand, don't even bother arguing it, you won't get until you get over yourself, your teacher, your likes or dislikes, and truly wish to break away from attachments, confinements, and partializations. Quit fussing over it.

I'm out.

* all quotes form the Tao unless specified, emphasis is mine. All parenthetical statement are mine. All pages from the 2009, 64th printing*

 

[mjw1]

Wing Chun is the base of Jeet Kune Do, "The Way of the Intercepting Fist" He added tools from other arts as he saw fit.

Or as he needed since Lee never learned the complete art of WC but thats another story....

 

[Shulom1***]

Or as he needed since Lee never learned the complete art of WC but thats another story....

Because wing chun is range specific, and Dan inosanto has said quoting BL that wc is best used in a bathroom stall. Wc traps is best used a transient stage to get to clinch range.

 

[mjw1]

^^^^
This is true for the most part however in the later stages of WC ie the 3rd form etc there is more outside of the box of WC techniques and long bridge stuff but lets stay on JKD here.

 

[Shulom1***]

^^^^
This is true for the most part however in the later stages of WC ie the 3rd form etc there is more outside of the box of WC techniques and long bridge stuff but lets stay on JKD here.

It's not that everything in else in WC is useless, it's just that beyond pak sao/lap sao, it's not all that useful from a Kickboxing/grappling stand point. Even pak sao/ lap sao are pretty damn useless unless you take them WAY out of their traditional drills/forms.

But that is just my opinion, and if you have more experience in it, and they work for you, then be like water. =)

 

[Too Defensive**]

where did the kicks come from? Savate and Muay Thai. Boxing for hands, Savate/Muay Thai for kicks WC for one little range called trapping range, Fencing strategy, with Judo, Small circle JJ and Catch for grappling. That is Jun Fan Gung Fu or Original JKD.

MT? Where is your source on this? Original JKD kicks are nothing like muay thai kicks. Hell, there aren't really any roundhouses as everything is done from the lead leg. I can see Savate, but not Muay Thai.

Also, Bruce Lee was contradicting himself. He rants on and on how JKD is not a style, but then he talks about the correct way to throw a punch, the correct way to move your feet etc. So its more like "do as I say, not as a do" type of thing.

 

[Too Defensive**]

Have you seen that clip on you tube where he is training this white guy on how to kick and punch. THe dude throws a kick, then Bruce says "no, you want to throw it this way".

If JKD is truley about freedom, then I should be able to throw the punch any which way I want. Or any way that works for me.

 

[quikkick]

Have you seen that clip on you tube where he is training this white guy on how to kick and punch. THe dude throws a kick, then Bruce says "no, you want to throw it this way".

If JKD is truley about freedom, then I should be able to throw the punch any which way I want. Or any way that works for me.

I think this gives further validity to my statement about Bruce writing this in Berkeley in the late 60's.

Truly, I think JKD is an evolution which one can get to after first apprehending a certain level of proficiency in a number of different arts and then it does become a philosophy.

 

[Shulom1***]

Have you seen that clip on you tube where he is training this white guy on how to kick and punch. THe dude throws a kick, then Bruce says "no, you want to throw it this way".

If JKD is truley about freedom, then I should be able to throw the punch any which way I want. Or any way that works for me.

Dude it's one thing to become proficient at any given technique. It's another to be bound by it, and only use that technique at the exclusion of all others.

 

[Shulom1***]

I think this gives further validity to my statement about Bruce writing this in Berkeley in the late 60's.

No, Bruce believed boxing punches where stronger and more alive than karate punches, so he trained people in boxing because it is alive.

Truly, I think JKD is an evolution which one can get to after first apprehending a certain level of proficiency in a number of different arts and then it does become a philosophy.

Well JKD is an evolution where you become proficient at Jun Fan Gung Fu( because BL believed that those where the essential basics, nowadays the JF grappling is obsolete so BJJ should replace it) , and then you begin experimenting with other arts to hack away at what is useless for YOU in JFGF and add what is useful to YOU yourself.

 

[Black Paladin]

Have you seen that clip on you tube where he is training this white guy on how to kick and punch. THe dude throws a kick, then Bruce says "no, you want to throw it this way".

If JKD is truley about freedom, then I should be able to throw the punch any which way I want. Or any way that works for me.

Well, if we were to look at that clip, which was actually WORKING? Everyone's grandmother can throw a kick. We MIGHT have to have Bruce show them how to actually do one that WORKS.

You don't want to obscure the main point: you still have to reach your goal.

 

[quikkick]

No, Bruce believed boxing punches where stronger and more alive than karate punches, so he trained people in boxing because it is alive.



Well JKD is an evolution where you become proficient at Jun Fan Gung Fu( because BL believed that those where the essential basics, nowadays the JF grappling is obsolete so BJJ should replace it) , and then you begin experimenting with other arts to hack away at what is useless for YOU in JFGF and add what is useful to YOU yourself.

What does that have to do with what I said about Bruce being in Berkeley during the time he wrote it?

 

[Shulom1***]

What does that have to do with what I said about Bruce being in Berkeley during the time he wrote it?

I thought that you where implying that he was tripping on acid and that's why he contradicted himself.

 

[Hendo89]

As a few people said ITS NOT A STYLE THERE IS NO JKD SPECIFIC TECHNIQUES, all MMA athletes are unwitting JKD practitioners, Its the style of no style, no form, be like water my friends, if the knee to the face in the MT clinch works-use it if your 50KG and fighting brock lesnar in a street fight kick him in the nuts - its basically a philosophy of comman fight sense which also completely shunned all martial arts saying no one of them is perfect, then BAM MMA- bruce lee would infact roll in his grave at the thought of a JKD dojo-it defeats the point of it all. A JKD gym would be a cage thats it. and MMA again is JKD, its a mix of all effective techniques in real fighting situations which is ever evolving. Dan inosanto has messed up severe.

 

[Hendo89]

Well, if we were to look at that clip, which was actually WORKING? Everyone's grandmother can throw a kick. We MIGHT have to have Bruce show them how to actually do one that WORKS.

You don't want to obscure the main point: you still have to reach your goal.

the way the guy kicked was crap, it wasnt gonna worrk for him - JKD doesnt mean sloppy it means what works - a shit kick is a shit kick

 

[Hendo89]

MT? Where is your source on this? Original JKD kicks are nothing like muay thai kicks. Hell, there aren't really any roundhouses as everything is done from the lead leg. I can see Savate, but not Muay Thai.

Also, Bruce Lee was contradicting himself. He rants on and on how JKD is not a style, but then he talks about the correct way to throw a punch, the correct way to move your feet etc. So its more like "do as I say, not as a do" type of thing.

Wow style would be which punch, your talking about proficiency, use any puch that will work but do it properly

 

[Hendo89]

I don't think it is a cop out, because Bruce Lee seemed opposed to using a weapon. I recall reading an example he made about a man with a knife versus an unarmed man. He says the man with the knife becomes fixated on only using the knife whereas the unarmed man has more tools available to him. I believe this ties into his belief that more than just the fundamentals of JKD, he emphasizes the need to honestly express ourselves totally and completely through the use of our body. I believe in that sense, using a chair, or any other kind of weapon is counter intuitive to Lee's philosophy of discovering ourselves through understanding our bodies as a total unit. One could argue that a weapon can become an extension of one's body, but personally I'd like to think Bruce Lee was more fixated on how to bring out the full potential of the human body without the use of weapons. I could be wrong, and maybe I'm misrepresenting the JKD philosophy, but I believe Bruce Lee intended JKD to be more of an individual journey rather a holistic one.So the history, names, and direction Lee's students are taking JKD in is rather moot in my eyes.

Enter the dragon- Nunchucks

 

[Zisteau]

Have you seen that clip on you tube where he is training this white guy on how to kick and punch. THe dude throws a kick, then Bruce says "no, you want to throw it this way".

If JKD is truley about freedom, then I should be able to throw the punch any which way I want. Or any way that works for me.

You, like a lot of people, have radically misinterpreted JKD. JKD is about using what WORKS, and casting aside everything else. So if you're punching in an ineffective manner YOU ARE DOING IT WRONG.

The freedom referred to in JKD refers to freedom from rigid martial arts systems, which are not inclusive of other techniques or ideas.