Jean Jacques Machado vs Draculino

[Higher Learning]

luther, as has been said a half dozen times already its not draculino's own competitive results that make him legendary, its his coaching and contributions to the sport... how are you not understanding this point?

 

[SpooNer]

Poppa is catching some hate.

I know that if I had a student who defended me like Poppa does i would be pretty proud.

I also know that if anyone said anything about my coach i would be first to step to his defense.

 

[POPPA ROTZEE]

People tend to have double standards when they talk about their personal little niche interests (e.g. BJJ). But if you look at other sports, and what takes to be a legend in other sports then everything should fall in the right place.

What did it take Vince Lombardi to become a Legendary Coach in football? He coached a team that won 5 championships out of 9 seasons, whats your point? He created champions and was great at motivating people. He was a great teacher.Drac has coached guys who've taking a ridiculous amount of titles in the super bowl of Jiu-Jitsu.

Romulo Barral:
Main Achievements (BJJ/Grappling): 2x Black Belt World Champion (2009, 2007); 3x Silver Medallist at Open Weight Division (2010, 2009, 2007); World Nogi Champion (2009); Bronze World Medallist (2006), Pan American Champion (2007 Weight and Absolute divisions)

Alberto Crane
Main Achievements: Mixed Martial Arts - King Of The Cage Lightweight Champion, Ring Of Fire Lightweight, Champion Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu- 3 time Brazilian National Jiu-Jitsu Champion, 2002 World Jiu-Jitsu Championship gold medalist. Submission Wrestling - Grapplers Quest Champion, Pan American Champion, 2 time Best of the West Champion, Abu Dhabi veteran

Eric Wenderley:
3x world champion, Brazilian International champion, and Pan American Champion

Samuel Braga:
6x World champion...I mean..you know what its pointless to keep going..there are so many I don't even have the time.

To the best of my knowledge Jean Jacques Machado is the only man in grappling history to reach the top of the sport without a hand. We are talking GRAPPLING, not chess.

And he was the best in BJJ (his weight class) for more than 10 years consecutively.

And he was the best in no gi too: ADCC champion in 1999, second in 2000, and lost the absolute final in 2001 against Arona (more than 20 kg / 50 pounds difference).

Without a hand.

This is legendary. This will remain in history.

Whos denying this? I didn't come one here and down play what JJM has done..your the one who came on here and randomly starting talking crap about drac like what he did was something that ever BJJ competitor and every BJJ Coach has done. I guess its just a whistle in the park to be the first person to open a Gracie Barra academy outside of Rio de Janeiro, and then take that academy and turn it into one of the most successful schools, in the largest BJJ organization on the planet.

What were the best results of Draculino? In BJJ being second at mundials? I wouldn't consider his no gi pan title, because was the masters division, not adult.

You don't follow things very well. You keep creating a strawman argument and then attacking it. All you keep talking about is his competition record. I've repeatedly talked about him being a legend for what he did as a whole. What hes been apart of and for his coaching of multiple world champions.

And his pan american no gi title was as of late, yes, thats because he still continues to compete after all these years..but he also held titles as a Pan American Champion (Black Belt Division 1995, 1996, 1998) but I guess those don't count either, right? Brazilian National Champion (Black Belt Division 1996) eh, no big deal. Beat everyone but Royler at worlds...and even Royler couldn't score a point on him in the last worlds they competed in..yeah...everyone does that. But again, no one said he was some unstoppable force in the competition world. No one said he was legendary for his competition.

Was he world class? Definitely but again..like I said..it was him as a whole..him as a teacher him as a competitor, where hes been and what hes done for this sport in general that has made him so well liked and known. If you don't want to accept that..fine, but don't try to act like everyone else is crazy and don't keep ignoring large points I'm making and then create this strawman argument claiming I said he was a legendary competitor and then attack this argument YOU made up and then pat yourself on the back..its silly.

Well then most of the BJJ black belt adult world champion have done better. So every BJJ champion becomes a legend?

Enzo Ferrari said: "the runner up is the first of loosers".

Yeah, well you get fucked when you get stuck in the Roger Gracie era and being in the Royler Gracie era wasn't to easy either I bet. Romulo Barral hasn't beat roger, I guess hes just another looser too.

This seems unfair, but people remember champions, and forget runner ups.

He was a champion, he has a bunch of Golds, and his school, Gracie Barra BH..that he coaches..has more champions and golds than I care to count.

And that was years ago and not even showing all of them.

JJM is on a whole another league, that's why this thread is silly.

I agree, but that doesn't stop what dracs done from being remarkable or being a Gracie Barra legend.

 

[POPPA ROTZEE]

luther, as has been said a half dozen times already its not draculino's own competitive results that make him legendary, its his coaching and contributions to the sport... how are you not understanding this point?

Thank you, I actually just said this. He keeps making this strawman argument and then attacking it.

 

[POPPA ROTZEE]

i like what i have seen from DRAC. but i agree that his competition career is not legendary. He may be a legendary coach which is fine with me. all in all he is a legend in the sport of Bjj.

I think thats pretty much EXACTLY what I said and the only point I tried to make. I didn't jump on this and say "Drac this and drac that" or that "Drac is a better coach than JJM or that he could beat him up" or something. All I did is respond when Luther said the exact opposite of what YOU just said, which means, you obviously agree with me.

But im glad some of you are putting popo-ritzy in his place.

You mean OUR place..we've both stated what he is legendary for...coaching.

i wanted to do it a while ago.

popo-ritzy you share a lot of good stuff with us...

STOP, thats all I need to hear..the rest of that starts to get 'y again.

like i said i like your good stuff...

STOP...please, just keep it at that. You think I'm going to get paid to talk about your instructor or myself? It may seem like when I'm on here...I'm talking about drac..which then makes it seem like all I do is talk about drac..but when a company pays you to do something...it kind of makes sense to do it.

I get paid to make cool videos for you guys which I enjoy doing and to share facts and answer questions or make comments about related subjects. You know what your doing right? Its like going up to Dana white or one of the promoters and saying..hey man..I like watching the UFC and everything..but man..I really get annoyed with hearing your commercials and hearing you talk about the UFC all the time and hearing you talk about its fighters and stuff..come one man..enough is enough, can't you talk about something else. lol what sense does that make?

 

[Luther]

luther, as has been said a half dozen times already its not draculino's own competitive results that make him legendary, its his coaching and contributions to the sport... how are you not understanding this point?

Legendary coach? We will see in the years to come if that's true. People forget the true meaning of words and use them without giving too much weigh, especially on forums. Then it comes a nuthugger like Poppeye, which obviously has a monetary interest in spamming left and right. And we have some fun.

But I digress, this thread was about comparing JJM and Drac, which in my opinion is just silly, JJM is on a whole another planet.

 

[POPPA ROTZEE]

Legendary coach? We will see in the years to come if that's true. People forget the true meaning of words and use them without giving too much weigh, especially on forums. Then it comes a nuthugger like Poppeye, which obviously has a monetary interest in spamming left and right. And we have some fun.

But I digress, this thread was about comparing JJM and Drac, which in my opinion is just silly, JJM is on a whole another planet.

No, this thread wasn't about comparing JJM and Drac, the OP said:

well ill rephrase if you had to be trained by one! (Who would you rather be trained by)

YOU are the one that started comparing. Plenty of people picked JJM and a lot picked Drac. Whats your big problem with this? Your the one that is putting JJM on a peddle stool and getting butt hurt that Dracs name was mentioned along with is. And THEN you acted like this was my thread or acted like I STARTED comparing them.

Did I? NO, infact..I said that Drac wouldn't even want to be compared to him..he was one of his instructors. Again, that has little to do with Drac's legitimacy as a coach or peoples preferences in choosing one or the other.

 

[nefti]

Legendary coach? We will see in the years to come if that's true. People forget the true meaning of words and use them without giving too much weigh, especially on forums. Then it comes a nuthugger like Poppeye, which obviously has a monetary interest in spamming left and right. And we have some fun.

But I digress, this thread was about comparing JJM and Drac, which in my opinion is just silly, JJM is on a whole another planet.

he has produced mundials and adcc champions... what else do you want? Heck if you look at only coaching he has produced more champions than JJM.

 

[POPPA ROTZEE]

he has produced mundials and adcc champions... what else do you want? Heck if you look at only coaching he has produced more champions than JJM.

This guy is obtuse...Its pointless to argue with him. I've tried to stop three times..but I have an argumentative weakness for absurd assertions. lol

 

[bnosam]

Legendary coach? We will see in the years to come if that's true. People forget the true meaning of words and use them without giving too much weigh, especially on forums. Then it comes a nuthugger like Poppeye, which obviously has a monetary interest in spamming left and right. And we have some fun.

But I digress, this thread was about comparing JJM and Drac, which in my opinion is just silly, JJM is on a whole another planet.

Regardless if he gets money or not, I will say that Poppa Rotzee does make good posts, far from spamming. Considering his posts do legitimately help people out with techniques and other information (some of his posts/threads have given me help or ideas), I wouldn't call it spam. Get your head out of your ass.

If someone was talking shit about your instructor, I'm sure you'd defend him. If you wouldn't then you're a straight up pussy.

 

[POPPA ROTZEE]

Regardless if he gets money or not, I will say that Poppa Rotzee does make good posts, far from spamming. Considering his posts do legitimately help people out with techniques and other information (some of his posts/threads have given me help or ideas), I wouldn't call it spam. Get your head out of your ass.

If someone was talking shit about your instructor, I'm sure you'd defend him. If you wouldn't then you're a straight up pussy.

Thanks bro, I appreciate it. This whole thing started out of me being a member here and trying to bring stuff that I would want to read or see in videos. I went out of my way to record class training or interview world class athletes and spend personal time editing the videos (Which takes forever by the way when you shoot in high def) I gave members here the chance to ask THEIR questions and listened to their input on things they wanted to see or questions they wanted to ask through threads and pms. I didn't get paid till they saw how much work I was putting in and wanted to compensate me. I always have and always will try to bring quality stuff but I'll admit..when someone starts talking shit or saying untrue things..about me, my teammates or my instructor..its hard to stay out of it.

 

[bnosam]

Thanks bro, I appreciate it. This whole thing started out of me being a member here and trying to bring stuff that I would want to read or see in videos. I didn't get paid till they saw how much work I was putting in and wanted to compensate me. I always have and always will try to bring quality stuff but I'll admit..when someone starts talking shit or saying untrue things..about me, my teammates or my instructor..its hard to stay out of it.

I agree, anyone that doesn't stand up for their team and instructor should when people are saying shit about them, you should get involved. It's ridiculous. I knew this thread would degrade to bashing either Draculino or JJM.

 

[POPPA ROTZEE]

I agree, anyone that doesn't stand up for their team and instructor should when people are saying shit about them, you should get involved. It's ridiculous. I knew this thread would degrade to bashing either Draculino or JJM.

It sad, because both of them have ALOT of respect for each other and are humble guys. JJM is an amazing competitor and instructor and I know he wouldn't be happy hearing people down play a student of his like Draculino and his success. And the same would be said in reverse about Draculino hearing things about one of his instructors like JJM.

 

[bnosam]

It sad, because both of them have ALOT of respect for each other and are humble guys. JJM is an amazing competitor and instructor and I know he wouldn't be happy hearing people down play a student of his like Draculino and his success. And the same would be said in reverse about Draculino hearing things about one of his instructors.

I personally didn't like this thread because it's kind of a disrespectful question IMO, so I didn't post until earlier.

 

[POPPA ROTZEE]

I personally didn't like this thread because it's kind of a disrespectful question IMO, so I didn't post until earlier.

Yeah, I stayed out of it especially because of the student teacher relationship they have. You would NEVER in a million years hear Romulo Barral or Samuel Braga or any of his students want to be compared to drac or something or hear us argue about it.

But when a guy comes in and starts talking shit about Drac like he is some regular everyday bjj coach....man..I had to.

 

[Mike Wilson Jr.]

You do kinda have a point, I dont think anyone would know who Drac was if it wasnt for Poppa Rotzee.

He was second best in the world at one time in his weight class, does that mean every silver medalist is a 'legend'? This is a serious question, and I think its up to individuals. Some might only consider the top dogs like Helio,Carlson,Rickson and Roger to be 'legends' whilst others might consider every guy who ever entered the mundials to be a legend.

Also I love it when Poppa Rotzee turns into Drac's human shield , great entertainment! Most loyal student ever!

I think youre high. Sure, for white belts, they may not know who he is, but old school guys, they know him.

Senior Black Belts, World Champion BBs, they know him, or at the very least know of him.

I mentioned to Master Murilo that Drac had an online training site, and he commented on how he remembers him from the first Mundials in 96. And how he competed at the same tournaments in Brazil for years.

Guys like that, and guys who actually follow the sport, and its history, knew who Drac was before Poppa ever started posting interviews.

Sure, his profile is high here on Sherdog, and the UG, but imo thats great. That an old school guy, who has put in more years than 99% of people will ever put in.

Hes been in the game a long time. Hes built champions. And i mean, consistant champions. Romulo is one of the best in the freaking world, and has been for years.

Alberto Crane, Azervado, Titi, etc... Those guys are badasses. And they were taught by him.

I havent had the pleasure to experience his teachings first hand in person, but his online ciriculum is top notch. Both quality of the site, and detail in the instruction. Its truely awesome.

And to top ALL of that off, the guy went out there and put it on the line, and beat some great competitors. He gave Royler a run for his money several times, when Royler was unstoppable. Destroying everyone, most of the time by submission. And he couldnt sub Drac.



Anyway, i dont mean to be a knight in shining armor here, but i think youd have to be crazy, or have incredibly high standards of who should be considered a legend. If thats the case, Rickson, Rolles, Carlson, and Helio are the tops as far as legends go.

But i dont think anyone was making a case for Drac or JJ to be held in that kind of regard.

Certainly there are degrees below those guys. But Drac is in the mix somewhere, at least for me.

People tend to have double standards when they talk about their personal little niche interests (e.g. BJJ). But if you look at other sports, and what takes to be a legend in other sports then everything should fall in the right place.

To the best of my knowledge Jean Jacques Machado is the only man in grappling history to reach the top of the sport without a hand. We are talking GRAPPLING, not chess.

And he was the best in BJJ (his weight class) for more than 10 years consecutively.

And he was the best in no gi too: ADCC champion in 1999, second in 2000, and lost the absolute final in 2001 against Arona (more than 20 kg / 50 pounds difference).

This i find interesting. Im not trying to dispute his accomplishments at all, and as we all know, it isnt possible to dispute ADCC Gold. But nonetheless, there was no real World Championships pre-1996. So i find it difficult to believe people when they say with seemingly absolute certainty, that someone was the best in the world for more than straight 10 years, with such limited oppertunities to prove it on a world scale. And not to mention the level of competitor at that time.

But just to be clear, i pose the same question to Rickson's claims of being the best for 20 years, when he never entered a Mundial.

The only levity i give to him is, the countless people he has defeated in his era, and the fact that there isnt a man alive today, who has claimed to have ever beaten Rickson at Black Belt.

In fact, the only person im aware of that claims to have ever even tapped Rickson, is Jacare Calvacanti, and that was when Rickson was a green belt. lol


But nonetheless, id like to learn more about the pre-Mundial era of World Champions. Is the Brazilian National Championship of that time considered the "Worlds"? Taking into consideration there were maybe 2 Gracie Schools in the US before 1985, and Brazil was basically the entire "World" of BJJ at the time.

Just curious if someone has more insight than what i can offer.

 

[POPPA ROTZEE]

I think youre high. Sure, for white belts, they may not know who he is, but old school guys, they know him.

Senior Black Belts, World Champion BBs, they know him, or at the very least know of him.

I mentioned to Master Murilo that Drac had an online training site, and he commented on how he remembers him from the first Mundials in 96. And how he competed at the same tournaments in Brazil for years.

Guys like that, and guys who actually follow the sport, and its history, knew who Drac was before Poppa ever started posting interviews.

Sure, his profile is high here on Sherdog, and the UG, but imo thats great. That an old school guy, who has put in more years than 99% of people will ever put in.

Hes been in the game a long time. Hes built champions. And i mean, consistant champions. Romulo is one of the best in the freaking world, and has been for years.

Alberto Crane, Azervado, Titi, etc... Those guys are badasses. And they were taught by him.

I havent had the pleasure to experience his teachings first hand in person, but his online ciriculum is top notch. Both quality of the site, and detail in the instruction. Its truely awesome.

And to top ALL of that off, the guy went out there and put it on the line, and beat some great competitors. He gave Royler a run for his money several times, when Royler was unstoppable. Destroying everyone, most of the time by submission. And he couldnt sub Drac.



Anyway, i dont mean to be a knight in shining armor here, but i think youd have to be crazy, or have incredibly high standards of who should be considered a legend. If thats the case, Rickson, Rolles, Carlson, and Helio are the tops as far as legends go.

But i dont think anyone was making a case for Drac or JJ to be held in that kind of regard.

Certainly there are degrees below those guys. But Drac is in the mix somewhere, at least for me.

Great post..I agree 100%

 

[TalkShowOnMute]

I like both JJM and Draculino. How can you dislike either of these guys? Seriously.

I'm not dissing the OP but this thread has no real point, just stirs shit up.

-----------------------

As a side note:

Anyone is welcome to search my name, view my past posts, and I can safely say I haven't gushed about or over-promoted Draculino on this forum in like a year. That is because I feel he is well enough known as it is now and his merits stand on on their own. Before the posts were because less of us lower belts,myself up until 2008, knew of him. So there is bound to be some backfire from the saturation but so what, the more you see of Draculino the more you will likely be learning. He is a wealth of knowledge and if he releases even a 30 second clip of him farting on a kazoo you will probably learn something about positioning from the guy.

Draculino, by far, is one of the most genuine guys I have met in my entire life. An all around awesome guy to know, outside of jiu jitsu. And that is all I will say.

 

[bnosam]

I like both JJM and Draculino. How can you dislike either of these guys? Seriously.

I'm not dissing the OP but this thread has no real point, just stirs shit up.

-----------------------

As a side note:

Anyone is welcome to search my name, view my past posts, and I can safely say I haven't gushed about or over-promoted Draculino on this forum in like a year. That is because I feel he is well enough known as it is now and his merits stand on his one. Before the posts were because less of us lower belts,myself up until 2008, knew of him. So there is bound to be some backfire from the saturation but so what, the more you see of Draculino the more you will likely be learning. He is a wealth of knowledge and if he releases even a 30 second clip of him farting on a kazoo you will probably learn something about positioning from the guy.

Draculino, by far, is one of the most genuine guys I have met in my entire life. An all around awesome guy to know, outside of jiu jitsu. And that is all I will say.

Omg Poppa Rotzee, how much did you pay him to say that? :icon_chee

 

[POPPA ROTZEE]

Omg Poppa Rotzee, how much did you pay him to say that? :icon_chee

lol, silly..TalkShow is a student and actually posted on sherdog about Drac before I was ever even a member on here