JCC Vs PBF?

Cracky said:
You're right. Floyd was smarter.. philly fighters pride themselves on wearing their hearts on their sleeves. Meldrick had the goods to be an all time great had he come but he had too much pride to accept that an opponent could beat him at any level in the ring. That was his down fall imo.
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i agree. I also have only seen chavez vs whitaker, oscar, tzsyu, taylor, and like 2 others. So I don't know as much as I should about chavez.
 
The fights with Whitaker, Oscar, Tszyu, and (I think) Taylor 2 were all when Chavez was on the downside.
 
CEROVFC said:
The fights with Whitaker, Oscar, Tszyu, and (I think) Taylor 2 were all when Chavez was on the downside.
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yea, that's why I mentioned it. I am not the most credible person when it comes to chavez. I tried downloading his career (well, at least some) but couldnt find it. Then I looked on ebay a few times and only saw like 10 fight collections, that had mostly the fights i mentioned
 
There was a time where his chin was simply Hagler-esque and he didn't cut.

I think one of his best performances was against Rosario. I think at that time Rosario was more reputable, listening to the commentary in hindsight was rather amusing. Anyhwo, what a total lopsided beating against a three time champ and arguable the hardest hitter in that divisions history.
 
Mayweather was HUNGRY at 130 pounds, and gave electrifying performances...absolutley decimating his opponents. I don't think Chavez could handle the athleticism, he couldn't handle Whitaker, and Mayweather is a bigger puncher than Pea was.
 
KK. JCastillo isn't in Chavez' league. Chavez was a very clear step ahead of castillo.
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Castillo isn't in Chavez' league in-terms of career accomplishments, to that I'll agree. But in-terms of styles in the ring, he gave Floyd Mayweather fits and arguably won their first bout. Something people in this thread are picking Chavez as duly unable to do. And no I don't attribute that to any lack of whatever on Floyd's part. Floyd was Floyd, Castillo just fought his ass off.

To say on one-hand Castillo came that close, but that Chavez wouldn't, and that Chavez was without question a better fighter, because Castillo was a sparring partner...is silly IMO.
 
chavez fought whitaker on the downside of his career. floyd wouldnt hurt a prime chavez. chavez had one fo the best beards ever
 
King Kabuki said:
Castillo isn't in Chavez' league in-terms of career accomplishments, to that I'll agree. But in-terms of styles in the ring, he gave Floyd Mayweather fits and arguably won their first bout. Something people in this thread are picking Chavez as duly unable to do. And no I don't attribute that to any lack of whatever on Floyd's part. Floyd was Floyd, Castillo just fought his ass off.

To say on one-hand Castillo came that close, but that Chavez wouldn't, and that Chavez was without question a better fighter, because Castillo was a sparring partner...is silly IMO.
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here's my thing...JLC was a HUUUUUGEEEE 35er. He cut a lot to make the weight. He has longer arms than Chavez,which against floyd is important because it helps him at least deal with Floyd speed. JCC was a much better boxer than JLC but IMO could be out quicked early (cuz JCC was a really really slow starter), then I think JCC would have to go after PBF where he would get sharpshooted late. Its true Floyd starts slow as well but if he's given openings,which JCC would give early, Floyd would end up being a step ahead the entire night.

IMO Chavez wouldn't been able to wear Floyd down because he wouldn't start early enough and because when Chavez peaked in the fight so would Floyd where he would UD Chavez. Floyd wouldn't trade like Taylor did.
 
I'm just not sure about the difference in skill being so drastic. Not only did Castillo catch and hang with Floyd (Floyd stood his ground a lot because Castillo made him), but he also caught Casamayor. Those were two of the slickest and fastest LW's of the day. And he didn't just out-size them.
 
I never thiught Casamayor was that quick and going into that fight with Joel, plenty of people assumed Castillo would beat him up, because Casamayor didnt look a thing like a lightweight. Way too small. Castillo was pretty poor in that fight and plenty of people scored it for Joel.

Chavez was far quicker of hand and better defensively than Castillo and he also put his punches together better. He could box on the back foot, use the jab to set up his shots and at the end of the day (and its most important to guys with this style) he took a shot better and was NEVER discouraged.

Castillo didn't really do anything as well as Chavez, IMO.
 
Wow, it's been a while since we've disagreed this much. lol

I thought Casamayor had exceptional foot-speed, hence his spending the whole first half of that fight running. If people thought Castillo would beat Joel up, I'd assume that was largely based on his size and strength. But he used more than that, in the beginning half of the fight he was frustrated, by the end he'd figured Joel out and landed nearly every right-hand he threw.

I can agree Chavez was quicker of hand, and put punches together better. But IMO Castillo had a bit better timing, and upper-body movement. That's one of the things that allowed him to do well against Floyd, his upper-body rhythm.

Now, I do feel Chavez did more with himself and was far more consistent in his Prime than Castillo was. But I don't think it's a hands-down victory for Chavez say if the two of them got in the ring at LW.
 
Oh, Casamayor has quick feet and knows what he's doing with them as well. I wasn't aware thats where you were going with that. People say "speed" or "fast" and you just assume its handspeed. My bad.

You think Castillo had better timing? Wow. Thats never crossed my mind, even though it was pretty clear that Castillo had a sixth sense when it came to landing over jabs, or countering....when he's not quick of hand.

I also think Castillo's head movement is over played. He wasn't Darnell Wilson in there, but by the same token, I don't think he was CHavez either. Chavez had spectacular head movement and rolled with punches about as good as any aggressive fighter ever did.

But WOW on your last comment. I think Chavez blisters Castillo. Pretty comfortably. Castillo was not uhm..."man enough" to stand in with JCC and last and thats the only way he'd be able to be competitive with him. He was bigger though, but plenty of fighters who Chavez walked through were.
 
You know, noticing Casa's foot-movement comes from how many Cuban and Dominican fighters I've seen in the Gym lately. It's their feet that baffles people more than anything else. Espeically guys like Guzman, and Izquierdo when he's not ballooned up between fights.

Castillo was inconsistent with his head-movement. Some fights he was brilliant, like against Mayweather and in spurts against Corrales. But he stopped it once he was trading with someone. However when you can stand at-range and make Floyd miss, you've got something.

I know my last comment would be shocking to you (and perhaps others) because it's not the norm. But you feeling the opposite doesn't surprise me as you did pick JCC to beat Floyd. lol At the very least I think JCC vs. JLC on their best day OUTSIDE the Gym would be a fun fight, even if Castillo didn't see the final bell.
 
Fun fight? Agreed. Castillo was rarely in bad fights, even if he was in there with a spoiler. Good fighter, good guy.

And those Cubans tend to get taught the things alot of other kids miss out on. Theyve got the fundementals down. That comes with a couple of hundred ammy fights I guess.
 
King Kabuki said:
I'm just not sure about the difference in skill being so drastic. Not only did Castillo catch and hang with Floyd (Floyd stood his ground a lot because Castillo made him), but he also caught Casamayor. Those were two of the slickest and fastest LW's of the day. And he didn't just out-size them.
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i hear ya on size because JLC threw in combinations. His combinations was able to tame Stevie Johnston who was really quick in addition to the guys you mentioned above. I just think that his arm length allows him to keep fast guys in his range because he can cover so much more space. JLC could take a fighters athleticism away without turning into a bulldozer. Chavez wouldn't have that nor would he have the power of a JLC so I don't see him beating Floyd.
 
I still think Johnston beat Castillo in both fights...
 
Tam-Tam said:
And those Cubans tend to get taught the things alot of other kids miss out on. Theyve got the fundementals down. That comes with a couple of hundred ammy fights I guess.
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100% agree...its weird man. So subtle with his footwork and head movement and even his punches. He was really short with his punches. Very rarely caught off balance...oh yea and a master of stepping on the lead foot.
 
135 vs 135 is a terribly hard fight to pick. At first I would think that Floyd's lack of foot movement during exchanges would kill him. Chavez eye's were alot faster than his head was, and I don't see Floyd's punches stunning Chavez.

If Floyd realizes he's out gunned early, it becomes a different fight me thinks.
 
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