It’s crazy how much Jon Jones is ahead of everyone as GOAT

[Mr Fahrenheit]

Same things can be said about fedor,but there is a difference:
-jones got caught using peds and drugs
-lhw division during jones run was way less competitive than hw during fedor"s run
-fedor was always smaller than his opponents and jones was always bigger than his opponents
- jones never fought at hw,which by default is tougher competition
-fedor never fought in ufc (lol) and jones never fought in pride

I don’t know what it means that HW is by default tougher. Unless you just mean that it’s more likely to get randomly caught and knocked out.

Not sure what to say about the size thing. Yes, Jon’s height and reach at 205 is part of his success, just like speed is part of Cody Garbrandt’s success, power is part of Ngannou’s success, cardio is part of Tony’s success and Colby’s success, etc. All those things are physical advantages too. I don’t see why we should be impressed when Fedor beats someone to the punch with explosiveness but not when Jones does it with reach.

It’s difficult to me for us to say that lightheavyweight was weak during Jon’s tenure. Some people might say that one dominant champ is a sign of a good division while others might say that a rotating belt is a sign of depth. Either way we’ve seen both at 205. Machida, Shogun and Evans all held the belt early in Jones’ tenure and Jones owned them all. Then on the back half of his career, but for Jones’ presence Daniel Cormier would’ve been a long-reigning champ (and Gus proved to be nearly as good). Jones went 4-0 against those two. (It’s a real shame Rumble didn’t time his rise better, because that would’ve been amazing).

 

[ThunderStruck]

I don’t know what it means that HW is by default tougher. Unless you just mean that it’s more likely to get randomly caught and knocked out.

Not sure what to say about the size thing. Yes, Jon’s height and reach at 205 is part of his success, just like speed is part of Cody Garbrandt’s success, power is part of Ngannou’s success, cardio is part of Tony’s success and Colby’s success, etc. All those things are physical advantages too. I don’t see why we should be impressed when Fedor beats someone to the punch with explosiveness but not when Jones does it with reach.

It’s difficult to me for us to say that lightheavyweight was weak during Jon’s tenure. Some people might say that one dominant champ is a sign of a good division while others might say that a rotating belt is a sign of depth. Either way we’ve seen both at 205. Machida, Shogun and Evans all held the belt early in Jones’ tenure and Jones owned them all. Then on the back half of his career, but for Jones’ presence Daniel Cormier would’ve been a long-reigning champ (and Gus proved to be nearly as good). Jones went 4-0 against those two. (It’s a real shame Rumble didn’t time his rise better, because that would’ve been amazing).

A simple demographic study shows that HW, LHW, BW and featherweights are the weakest division while LW and WW are the most stacked. It will always be the case unless the worldwide average human natural weight changes drastically.

 

[GrayArea]

A simple demographic study shows that HW, LHW, BW and featherweights are the weakest division while LW and WW are the most stacked. It will always be the case unless the worldwide average human natural weight changes drastically.

And jones would literally kill Gsp anyway he wanted to, whenever he wanted to.

 

[ThunderStruck]

And jones would literally kill Gsp anyway he wanted to, whenever he wanted to.

Not without his steroids.

 

[IsNormal]

"Sure Jones gets hit a lot, but he has great defense"

WTF

If Jones is getting hit a lot, then he doesnt have good defense period

I can see how that statement might sound dumb and needs some clarification.
You might get hit a lot but roll with the punches to reduce the damage.
When he gets hit he's quick to move away and avoids getting overwhelmed. Which is a part of a good defense.
He sure does have a great chin but if he would get taken down and ground and pounded, a good chin wouldn't be enough.
His chin has totally helped him last longer - but it's been helped by the fact that he has the defense to avoid getting in situations where he's dominated and can't escape a barrage of punches.

 

[Huligani]

He has never even been rocked.

 

[Herbanii]

-never been decisioned, KO’d, or subbed
-never tapped to strikes or submissions even when TRTvitor broke his arm in round 1
-Undefeated in Championship fights
-beat HW champions from 3 major organizations
-youngest UFC champ at age 23 (not counting a tournament winner Vitor in the early ufc days)
-fights 220+ lb fighters who are much more dangerous than weight classes like bw-ww
-out strikes Muay Thai fighters, out-wrestles olympians
-parties hard with drinking/bud/coke and still beats his opponents

GOAT
View attachment 680919

If all his opponents were on tbol i would have been impressed.

 

[IsNormal]

The fact that you have to limit LHW down to only 2 great fighters at the top, shows how utter shit LHW is.

Note that I started by saying "I kind of agree".
I do think most other divisions are stronger than LHW.
I did not argue it was one of the stronger divisions on the whole, just saying that I think it's not quite as weak as some argue.

Stipe just looked far impressive against DC, then Jones ever did, and Stipe was actually clean.

And Diaz looked far more impressive against Conor than Aldo or any of the FW greats ever did.
DC being finished by a solid HW champ in a rematch is not in itself proof that the LHW division sucked. Just as Conor being finished by a LW outside the top 5 isn't proof that FW sucks.

Given that DC and Stipe are still 1-1 with Stipe having been KO'd easily in the first, I wouldn't say Stipe's fights against DC looks better than the two times Jone's beat DC.

However I can totally respect if you think Jones being juiced up invalidates his wins.

PS: just to clarify - I do agree LW and FW are much deeper divisions than LHW.
I'm not arguing LHW is great. All I was saying is that LHW has a great top 2.

 

[Klippy]

Best to ever do it.

 

[GangGangGang]

Yes, 14 title fights - 13 wins, 1 no contest.

Still means he's undefeated in title fights.. A NC isn't a loss.

 

[grimballer]

The only issue with jones is all the suspensions in his prime. If not for those he’ll be clear goat fighter

Right now I have to put fedor n Anderson above him for the totality of their careers

however if jones defends his title few more times or goes to hw n wins the title, it would be hard to argue he’s not the goat

 

[grimballer]

Not without his steroids.

Blown up lw made gsp tap to strikes

just stop it.

 

[heSHurt]

Still means he's undefeated in title fights.. A NC isn't a loss.

Sure, no contest on the record is one of the best performances from JJ ever, official record can't be disputed though.

 

[Alpha_T83]

I know. It's so crazy.

It's almost as though if an athlete is given special protection to abuse PEDs -- and the competition is not -- that said athlete will have a huge advantage.

 

[Alpha_T83]

Got his ass kicked last time around. Was out there looking like a turtle

I agree. I thought he arguably lost 3-2, although I can certainly see the argument for him winning, since Santos looked hobbled on two torn knees.

But it's not a good look when a fighter is is wrecking you, and you only win because he tears all the ligaments in both knees (on his own when throwing kicks no less). And Jon couldn't even finish a fighter with no good knees.

 

[TheToqueville]

-never been decisioned, KO’d, or subbed
-never tapped to strikes or submissions even when TRTvitor broke his arm in round 1
-Undefeated in Championship fights
-beat HW champions from 3 major organizations
-youngest UFC champ at age 23 (not counting a tournament winner Vitor in the early ufc days)
-fights 220+ lb fighters who are much more dangerous than weight classes like bw-ww
-out strikes Muay Thai fighters, out-wrestles olympians
-parties hard with drinking/bud/coke and still beats his opponents

GOAT
View attachment 680919

QFT.

NOONE in MMA has done what he's done.

 

[Bouboumaster]

GSP is a confirmed cheater (grease-gate)

Wasn't found guilty.
Jones, however, have a NC because he's a cheater. Plus, he was caught by USADA how many times already? Like, two times or something?
And the eyes pokes, etc...

It would be dishonest to bundle GSP and Jones in the same category.

 

[Mr Fahrenheit]

A simple demographic study shows that HW, LHW, BW and featherweights are the weakest division while LW and WW are the most stacked. It will always be the case unless the worldwide average human natural weight changes drastically.

Yea I agree with that. The poster I was responding to cited fighting at LHW instead of HW as an advantage for Jones vs Fedor. If we agree that divisions thin out the further we get from the mean and median (and I think we do), then that argument doesn’t hold up.

 

[Iron Nick]

lol I like how the haters say that using juice helped Jones. Like did the steroids tell jones to kick dc in the head . Seriously imagine having 10+ title defenses and the haters are still having excuses on why he's not the goat

PEDs allow you to:

• ..recover faster and therefore train more often (which is a big advantage)
• ..help your endurance/strength, which also helps in fights. It's a lot easier to time a perfectly accurate head kick when your less exhausted

So if anything, it's Jones' fans making excuses. Now no man knows everything about himself, but apparently Jones was sure that he needed PEDs in order to win that fight.

 

[Iron Nick]

Proven cheaters cant be goats. This might be the only sport ive ever seen where fans try and prop cheaters up as goats.

Preach it man.
It truly is ridiculous.