Opinion Is Universal Basic Income the way forward?

[Jake the Muss]

A universal basic income is a government guarantee that each citizen receives a minimum income. It is also called a citizen’s income, guaranteed minimum income, or basic income.

The intention behind the payment is to provide enough to cover the basic cost of living and provide financial security. The concept has regained popularity as a way to offset job losses caused by technology.
https://www.thebalance.com/universal-basic-income-4160668

I see an ideological conflict in this debate, and members on both sides have a point. It's worth discussing the pros and cons of UBI.

Pros:

• Universal Basic Income (UBI) reduces poverty and income inequality, and improves health.
• UBI leads to positive job growth and lower school dropout rates.
• UBI guarantees income for non-working parents and caregivers, thus empowering important unpaid roles, especially for women.

Cons:

• Universal Basic Income (UBI) takes money from the poor and gives it to everyone, increasing poverty and depriving the poor of needed targeted support.
• UBI removes the incentive to work, adversely affecting the economy and leading to a labor and skills shortage.
• UBI is too expensive.

https://www.procon.org/headline.php?headlineID=005363

 

[MVelsor]

job losses caused by technology.

It often creates a net gain.

 

[Jake the Muss]

It often creates a net gain.

The shutdown response to the pandemic is the trigger for the latest discussions on UBI, although I am confident that a lot of businesses are going to invest in automation technologies to cut down on operating costs moving forward; which means less jobs.

 

[nac386]

Pros:

• Universal Basic Income (UBI) reduces poverty and income inequality, and improves health.

Cons:

• Universal Basic Income (UBI) takes money from the poor and gives it to everyone, increasing poverty and depriving the poor of needed targeted support.

Well, it can't reduce poverty and increase poverty simultaneously. I would think that the "takes money from the poor" part is referring to paying taxes which poverty stricken individuals would not be paying. If you are in poverty, tax hikes to pay for UBI would likely not affect you at all.

But I am not for UBI because it is too broad of a brush. Many people do not need a check from the government and they are not in need of any form of assistance. Passing out billions of dollars to people who do not need it does not seem like a reasonable way to spend tax money to me.

Then you have people who are making a decent salary, 6-figures or so, but are living in a more expensive area as a result. For example, if you have a family and you work in NYC, you are likely living in North Jersey and paying quite a bit for your house and property tax. Some of those people would be seeing tax hikes, even though they are far from living a life of luxury. I don't want to see normal people, working hard to be middle class, see any tax hikes at all. Making $120,000 a year in some rural area of Kansas is not the same as making that same figure in NYC, and that never seems to be part of the consideration.

 

[TheComebackKid]

This was always the plan. And like idiots you guys will go for it.

 

[Nameless Ghoul]

I think that there's definitely going to be a major push for it in the coming months, but I don't trust it.

 

[Seano]

UBI is just undeserved welfare for the masses.
Who is going to work when they have a check every month for nothing?

 

[reveler]

zimbabwe-esque in its inflation, joe.

 

[TheComebackKid]

Universal basic income removes the ability for an individual to take care of himself which leaves him under the control and at the mercy of the state. Your whole life can be shut off with a switch. Same as "digital dollars".

How is this even being considered by rational thinking adults I have no idea.

 

[swiftasthewind]

ok lets gif everyone money wether they are talented or not
where will u take it from ?
how will it hurt people that want to create a new product if they need to pay initial cost while having to profit same as nonworking non educated people ?

 

[zebby23]

UBI is just undeserved welfare for the masses.
Who is going to work when they have a check every month for nothing?

Life isn’t black and white like you think it is. There are lots of colors in between. You honestly think people will quit their jobs in mass because they get a couple grand a month? I don’t know about you but a thousand or 2 thousand a month ain’t shit. I would literally take that money and save it for retirement. You need to expand your thinking

 

[zebby23]

Universal basic income removes the ability for an individual to take care of himself which leaves him under the control and at the mercy of the state. Your whole life can be shut off with a switch. Same as "digital dollars".

How is this even being considered by rational thinking adults I have no idea.

so what is welfare and food stamps? Why is everything so bleak to you?

 

[Seano]

Life isn’t black and white like you think it is. There are lots of colors in between. You honestly think people will quit their jobs in mass because they get a couple grand a month? I don’t know about you but a thousand or 2 thousand a month ain’t shit. I would literally take that money and save it for retirement. You need to expand your thinking

Of course they would. I would. If you hand everything to everyone, what incentive do they have to go out and earn anything? I'm not going to my 9-5 job anymore if I'm getting a couple of grand a month to sit on my ass.
I could live pretty comfortably off of two grand a month. On top of that, I would probably qualify for other social assistance as well.

 

[Seano]

so what is welfare and food stamps? Why is everything so bleak to you?

And no one out there takes unnecessary advantage of welfare in this country, right?

 

[Not A Theist]

I love the idea of a UBI and look forward to the day we can make it happen. My only concern is, can we? I have two major (and a lot of minor) questions.

First, could we pull off an actual UBI scheme without incurring massive deficits?
Second, if no, are such deficits sustainable long term?

Another concern I have is that that calculations for any of this will be done for current state of labour but this will undoubtedly change the state of labour, so how much flex is there in the system if the labour base that pays for is diminished by the UBI?

Also, if implemented as a non global system, this will undoubtedly place a greater tax burden on the wealthy. I don't have a problem with that in principle but, since (insert country trying the UBI) isn't the only game in town, how do we stop the golden geese paying for it from flying to the other country down the street where they're not trying UBI?

Lastly, have we seriously considered the risks of such an increase in centralized control? Big government is a wonderful tool. It's also a very nasty one at times. Increased dependency on it can lead to some very unwanted side effects, and in an age where a "social credit system" exists, there are some dystopian implications from creating a God who hands down manna from Heaven for His people.

 

[brackis1]

lol y'all realize that if people get a check for the government they're still gonna want to spend and live above the means of said check, right? And then have to get jobs?
Those who need the basics won't, which is fine by me I don't want lazy dumbasses in the workplace, they disrupt more than they add.

 

[TheComebackKid]

so what is welfare and food stamps? Why is everything so bleak to you?

Welfare and food stamps present the same problems. Back in the 60s black women were forced to remove their husbands from their home in order to recieve a welfare check(UBI). They were required to break up their family. If they snuck their husbands back into the home and were caught, guess what? Their welfare checks, ie universal basic income, were....shut off.

 

[Deleted member 159002]

What would happen to the irresponsible members of society who squander their UBI on booze, drugs, and hookers? Would they get extra payments on top of UBI? Would they still be allowed to panhandle?

 

[Swing]

I don't think anybody can reasonably see that far ahead. By the time technology advances to the point where a level of automation that calls for universal basic income is achievable, I expect to be in the ground.

But something people seem to overlook when they talk about automation is how often shit breaks down and how difficult certain menial tasks are for a robot. Like building a robot to stock store shelves. I have a tough time believing that would ever be reasonable. Think about all the things that could go wrong that you'd need to call a technician/mechanic for versus just hiring a person. And even if we move so far away from the idea of stores that stocking shelves isn't really a thing, I still think it would be easier for a human being to sort items for delivery than for a robot.

 

[MMAGA]

The shutdown response to the pandemic is the trigger for the latest discussions on UBI, although I am confident that a lot of businesses are going to invest in automation technologies to cut down on operating costs moving forward; which means less jobs.

No, it will mean more tech jobs.