Opinion Is Universal Basic Income the way forward?

You can go for about 3 months almost anywhere. Then fly out and go back, rinse repeat. Or just travel around. $2000 a month and I'm living as a UBI nomad traveling the world or just doing visa runs for the rest of my life. Never working again.

Or in flyover country: I get $2000, my wife gets $2000. $50K/ year for doing nothing. You can easily live on that even in cities outside of SF/ LA/ DC/ etc. Neither of us are ever working again. If we get like $1K per kid, holy shit. No one in the country is ever working again.
Wouldn't that defeat the purpose of not going to work in the first place? It seems to me that with all the work and traveling it would take to live in all these other countries it seems like it would be easier just to stay home and go to work.
Okay but not everyone is married and has kids. What about single guys in their 20s (like me) who aren't tied down to anyone? How are we supposed to live off $2000 a month? People like me will have to go to work regardless, but at least with the extra $2000 in our pockets we won't have to worry about not making rent that month because we needed to buy enough food to last us the next 2-3 weeks.
 
If the problem that UBI is intended to solve is a dwindling need for human labor, what difference does it make if some people aren't motivated?

That may be the case at some point in the future, but we were close to full employment before the lockdown. And so far the history of mechanization has not been to throw massive numbers of people out of work forever. New jobs and industries eventually emerge. Even if mass unemployment is what eventually happens I still don't believe it's psychologically and socially healthy for human beings to be on the dole and lay on their ass.
 
The shutdown response to the pandemic is the trigger for the latest discussions on UBI, although I am confident that a lot of businesses are going to invest in automation technologies to cut down on operating costs moving forward; which means less jobs.

The economy just isn't that simple, though. Increased productivity often results in products becoming cheaper and wealth becoming more abundant, rather than job loss.

So in simplistic terms, as car manufacturing becomes more automated and productivity increases, we don't shrink the labour force, we just make more cars, and consumers buy more cars, and more families have two or more cars, and people keep their cars for shorter periods if time before replacing them.

Implementing a UBI would mean fewer cars, meaning that you need to convince people they would prefer, say, for one of the adults to stay home, over having a second or larger family car. Which... fair enough. Different people and families would make different choices.

The problem is, that's already the sort of choice that the economy forces us to make. Most people only pretend it's not a choice because they want the second car... and the iPhone... and the brand Cable TV.

The main reward from a UBI will go to people who are disabled or addicts or have mental health issues that prevent them from working (or that just refuse to work). But I don't know how you keep inflation from making the UBI a large enough amount to pull people out of poverty. The higher the payment in nominal dollars, the more inclined people are to stop working, the lower the productivity, the lower the supply, the higher the demand, the higher the prices, the lower the payment in real dollars.
 
I don't think it will happen right now, but I think it's an inevitability with the rise of automation.

There are so many other ways it could go, though. It really depends on the nature of the innovation. If we get to a point of true, full automation, where people don't need to be involved in production at all, money becomes irrelevant. We just go online and order whatever our heart desires and our robot slaves deliver it up. Unless they decide we're now superfluous and wipe us out, instead...
 
Someone else handling your basic needs would eliminate your own desire to strive for success?

As a high school teacher, let me assure you that for a lot of people it really would. You don't want to know the percentage of people who do the bare minimum in every situation.

Hell, go to any work environment. Half the people there are trying to get away with doing as close to nothing as they possibly can while still collecting a paycheck as it is. You think that's going to change when as close to nothing as possible becomes, literally, nothing?
 
That may be the case at some point in the future, but we were close to full employment before the lockdown. And so far the history of mechanization has not been to throw massive numbers of people out of work forever. New jobs and industries eventually emerge. Even if mass unemployment is what eventually happens I still don't believe it's psychologically and socially healthy for human beings to be on the dole and lay on their ass.
I’d agree now is not the time for it, if ever. I tend to favor targeted solutions to the shortcomings of a market economy over blunt tools like a ubi. I do appreciate the simplicity of cash to people over a new program and federal bureaucracy for every problem, though.

If mass unemployment becomes a foreseeable reality I’d support it or something like it. I think production from capital meeting all of our basic needs should be the ultimate goal. I’m certainly not worried about the psychological effect, I think it would mostly be positive.
 
As a high school teacher, let me assure you that for a lot of people it really would. You don't want to know the percentage of people who do the bare minimum in every situation.

Hell, go to any work environment. Half the people there are trying to get away with doing as close to nothing as they possibly can while still collecting a paycheck as it is. You think that's going to change when as close to nothing as possible becomes, literally, nothing?

Yeah I live in the world also. It's pathetic to want someone else to be responsible for your well-being. I'm on the fence about this concept honestly. I simply don't know enough about the impact it would have. Seems like it would separate the pathetic from those that have some self-respect though. Let me tell you, as someone that actually wants to work and earn my way, I would not mind seeing less apathy in my workplace.
 
Yeah I live in the world also. It's pathetic to want someone else to be responsible for your well-being. I'm on the fence about this concept honestly. I simply don't know enough about the impact it would have. Seems like it would separate the pathetic from those that have some self-respect though. Let me tell you, as someone that actually wants to work and earn my way, I would not mind seeing less apathy in my workplace.

Not a terrible point, actually.
 
Back
Top