Is Trump really that bad?

[ChainFlow]

It's a system where the lowest common denominator votes on their governance... so yes.

Good thing policy isn’t done by facebook polls and we have governmental institutions that moderate the impulse for voting oneself more shit, although those same institutions lately seem captured by the oligarchs and will need to be reworked to be more resistant to the power concentration resulting from wealth concentration, eh?

If wealth can subvert democratic institutions, just imagine what kind of feudalistic hellhole the world would be without them.

You wanna address a point....okay....how has Trump negatively affected you?

Ok. Trump’s FCC head repealing net neutrality is going to screw with my internet. He appointed Mulvaney, who literally wants to dismantle the CPFB, as its head - I had family who were screwed by Wells Fargo and he wants to let that kind of thing keep going. He is backing a tax plan that will destabilize the healthcare market and cause some of my family members’ premiums to skyrocket. Three things off the top of my head. Now drop the robotic repeating loop.

 

[Greoric]

100% agree. While we disagree on economics, we definitely agree that authoritarianism has about zero redeemable qualities.

I ninja edited another line onto my last post, and yes. Absolutely to this too.

 

[silicavaginitis]

Good thing policy isn’t done by facebook polls and we have governmental institutions that moderate the impulse for voting oneself more shit, although those same institutions lately seem captured by the oligarchs and will need to be reworked to be more resistant to the power concentration resulting from wealth concentration, eh?

If wealth can subvert democratic institutions, just imagine what kind of feudalistic hellhole the world would be without them.



Ok. Trump’s FCC head repealing net neutrality is going to screw with my internet. He appointed Mulvaney, who literally wants to dismantle the CPFB, as its head - I had family who were screwed by Wells Fargo and he wants to let that kind of thing keep going. He is backing a tax plan that will destabilize the healthcare market and cause some of my family members’ premiums to skyrocket. Three things off the top of my head. Now drop the robotic repeating loop.

So that offsets my cost of obamacare causing my premiums to go up?
Did you bitch about that?

 

[Greoric]

Good thing policy isn’t done by facebook polls and we have governmental institutions that moderate the impulse for voting oneself more shit, although those same institutions lately seem captured by the oligarchs and will need to be reworked to be more resistant to the power concentration resulting from wealth concentration, eh?

If wealth can subvert democratic institutions, just imagine what kind of feudalistic hellhole the world would be without them.

Right, which is why we're a republic... or should be. It's still not immune to that impulse over time as we've seen with recursive and progressive deterioration of our rights.

By feudalistic hell hole, you mean where everyone votes for themselves and for what they want individually, instead of voting for everyone else and what they should want?

 

[VivaRevolution]

Not hating on folks that worked their ass off.....why are you?

Yeah, I don't have a problem John Gotti's work ethic.

I have a problem with how destructive his behavoir is.

Honest question man. Have you ever worked in a corporate environment?

I ask because I have met 2 fortune 500 CEO's, and probably 40 different executives at my work place. They are not impressive people. They, as a group, were arrogant bean counters. They don't know shit about production, or engineering, or people management. They were glorified statistical analysts.

 

[silicavaginitis]

Yeah, I don't have a problem John Gotti's work ethic.

I have a problem with how destructive his behavoir is.

Honest question man. Have you ever worked in a corporate environment?

I ask because I have met 2 fortune 500 CEO's, and probably 40 different executives at my work place. They are not impressive people. They, as a group, were arrogant bean counters. They don't know shit about production, or engineering, or people management. They were glorified statistical analysts.

1)Your corporation sucks.
2)Work your ass off to get to another corporation
3)Don't hate because people work harder or know more than you.
4)Stop bitching about high paying CEO's.......honestly.....sometimes they earn it.

 

[VivaRevolution]

The difference is that the wealth generated by self interest in a decentralized market works for everyone also.

I can't remember if we have ever really discussed how you would go about unwinding globalization, so that a decentralized market wouldn't get crushed by competitive advantage.

Or do you think we could just let China engage in their mercantilism, through central authority, and our decentralized markets would still somehow compete?

 

[ChainFlow]

So that offsets my cost of obamacare causing my premiums to go up?
Did you bitch about that?

If it had accelerated the rise of premium increases instead of slowing them, I would have objected to it. Good thing it demonstrably and really did depress the rate of healthcare cost growth. I think it was a horrible Frankenstein of a bill but it somehow ended up doing at least some of the things it tried to do.

By feudalistic hell hole, you mean where everyone vote for themselves and for what they want individually, instead of voting for everyone else and what they should want?

Those same voters who you lambast as lowest common denominator a moment ago, now should be held as near princes — or perhaps “sovereigns” — in their own little domains, wisely voting for things in their enlightened self interest?

If most people are really that dumb you’d think that you wouldn’t support that kind of thing.

That’s the one of the realizations that ultimately turned me away from libertarianism, by the way. The inconsistent requirements for information levels for consumer-citizens, and particularly assuming perfect information only when it helps the cause. On the one hand, we don’t need to worry about corporate predation or barons abusing their station because the fact of their abuse will ripple out into the community and cause disassociations with a greater cost than the benefit of the cheating (and let’s pretend that coverups never happen, f.ex the fact that the sugar industry apparently has been covering up research implicating sugar as a primary culprit of heart disease for DECADES, helping foster the low-fat-high-carb “health” trend of the 70s-2000s). And people certainly will fully educate themselves on every decision they make in the marketplace because that’s the rational thing to do. LOL...

And on the other hand, we can’t let people do things like vote for universal healthcare because they’re too stupid to stop voting themselves more and more benefits even if there’s publicly published papers that show that oh no Rome is going to collapse if they keep doing it.

The conditionally perfectly informed citizen... once I realized that the whole idea was insane, it was a lot easier to realize the further flaws in other irrationally held concepts like the NAP. Anyway, /derail

 

[VivaRevolution]

1)Your corporation sucks.
2)Work your ass off to get to another corporation
3)Don't hate because people work harder or know more than you.
4)Stop bitching about high paying CEO's.......honestly.....sometimes they earn it.

It's bad economics man.

Put money into the hands of people who spend it, and actually produce things for a living other than memo's.

 

[Trotsky]

1)Your corporation sucks.
2)Work your ass off to get to another corporation
3)Don't hate because people work harder or know more than you.
4)Stop bitching about high paying CEO's.......honestly.....sometimes they earn it.

Man, I would really admire your humility if it wasn't so obviously just the product of reductive meritocratic dogma and sheer economic illiteracy.

 

[GhostZ06]

• Incredibly paranoid
• Incredibly irrational
• Incredibly avarice
• Ignorant, willfully so
• Vindictive
• Petty
• Incredibly dishonest
• Cannot even perform ceremony without making a fool of himself
• Makes us a laughingstock internationally with his child like behavior
• Has no policies except fuck the black guy
• Enriches himself on the taxpayer dime to an incredible amount
• Wants a tax giveaway for the rich donors to his party

The list could go on indefinitely.

Starting a war with north korea
Starting a war with iran
Ruining our relations with Nato
Ruining our relations with canada
Ruining our relations with england
Ruining our relations with meixco
further diving the american people.
Failing to make a stance of the the right wing neo nazi assholes
Destroying our trade agreements with other nations
boosting our defense budget to 700B with no reasons why
Ruining net neutrality
Failing to install term limits
Failing to pull out of of the middles
Failing to cut ties with saudis instead sucked they're dick off
launching a shitty tax bill
Failing on the trillion dollar infrastructure plan
his foreign policy have been total jokes
Taking more golf trips for no good reason
installing his shitty family as important white house staff memembers
has the most unstable cabenit
making us look weak to the god damn chinese
making us look weak to the Russians...

i can keep going.

obama was not ever this bad

 

[Greoric]

I can't remember if we have ever really discussed how you would go about unwinding globalization, so that a decentralized market wouldn't get crushed by competitive advantage.

Or do you think we could just let China engage in their mercantilism, through central authority, and our decentralized markets would still somehow compete?

Because every country and everyone in those countries has a comparative advantage. You don't have to have an absolute advantage to be successful... just better at making a product or service than something else.

Though, your point about automation is the most concerning. Like you mentioned before, we're not at a threshold of putting most farmers out of business like in the industrial revolution. With AGI we're looking at something that's going to put the overwhelming majority of the workforce out of work.... and most all work on top of it.

 

[Greoric]

If most people are really that dumb you’d think that you wouldn’t support that kind of thing.

Not sure that I understand the question here, but yeah. People tend to have a better appraisal over what their own interests are versus the appraisal of what everyone else's interests are.

Perfect information isn't required, and its not a premise for decentralized markets. That's a strawman. There's certainly asymmetry, but there's no better arbiter to close that asymmetry than the individual making their own value judgments.... or their own assement of whom to outsource it to.

 

[hillelslovak87]

Starting a war with north korea
Starting a war with iran
Ruining our relations with Nato
Ruining our relations with canada
Ruining our relations with england
Ruining our relations with meixco
further diving the american people.
Failing to make a stance of the the right wing neo nazi assholes
Destroying our trade agreements with other nations
boosting our defense budget to 700B with no reasons why
Ruining net neutrality
Failing to install term limits
Failing to pull out of of the middles
Failing to cut ties with saudis instead sucked they're dick off
launching a shitty tax bill
Failing on the trillion dollar infrastructure plan
his foreign policy have been total jokes
Taking more golf trips for no good reason
installing his shitty family as important white house staff memembers
has the most unstable cabenit
making us look weak to the god damn chinese
making us look weak to the Russians...

i can keep going.

obama was not ever this bad

I would argue, but.....

 

[VivaRevolution]

If it had accelerated the rise of premium increases instead of slowing them, I would have objected to it. Good thing it demonstrably and really did depress the rate of healthcare cost growth. I think it was a horrible Frankenstein of a bill but it somehow ended up doing at least some of the things it tried to do.

Those same voters who you lambast as lowest common denominator a moment ago, now should be held as near princes — or perhaps “sovereigns” — in their own little domains, wisely voting for things in their enlightened self interest?

If most people are really that dumb you’d think that you wouldn’t support that kind of thing.

That’s the one of the realizations that ultimately turned me away from libertarianism, by the way. The inconsistent requirements for information levels for consumer-citizens, and particularly assuming perfect information only when it helps the cause. On the one hand, we don’t need to worry about corporate predation or barons abusing their station because the fact of their abuse will ripple out into the community and cause disassociations with a greater cost than the benefit of the cheating (and let’s pretend that coverups never happen, f.ex the fact that the sugar industry apparently has been covering up research implicating sugar as a primary culprit of heart disease for DECADES, helping foster the low-fat-high-carb “health” trend of the 70s-2000s). And people certainly will fully educate themselves on every decision they make in the marketplace because that’s the rational thing to do. LOL...

And on the other hand, we can’t let people do things like vote for universal healthcare because they’re too stupid to stop voting themselves more and more benefits even if there’s publicly published papers that show that oh no Rome is going to collapse if they keep doing it.

The conditionally perfectly informed citizen... once I realized that the whole idea was insane, it was a lot easier to realize the further flaws in other irrationally held concepts like the NAP. Anyway, /derail

I could be wrong, but I don't think Greoric is a libertarian utopian. I believe he subscribes to the idea that you will get bad outcomes, like bubbles, but you won't get the great depression. I think there is merit to that log.

Of course I described myself as a libertarian until I started reading about the rise of the machines.

 

[Trotsky]

100% agree. While we disagree on economics, we definitely agree that authoritarianism has about zero redeemable qualities.

Depending on how narrowly you're defining authoritarianism, this may be a very silly statement, historically speaking.

 

[Greoric]

Depending on how narrowly you're defining authoritarianism, this may be a very silly statement, historically speaking.

Historically speaking, authoritarianism has killed more people than the plague. I'd say that's a pretty damning indictment on it's redeem-ability.

 

[VivaRevolution]

Depending on how narrowly you're defining authoritarianism, this may be a very silly statement, historically speaking.

Are you speaking of the efficiency of authoritarianism?

If so, I acknowledge that, but I believe that is completely wiped out by its inherent corruption, which inevitably leads to collapse.

I would describe it as an efficient time bomb.

 

[WTF2008]

Since Trump became president, and even before then, he was getting heavily criticized by the media. What I want to know is, is he really that bad? Or is the media just not giving him a break?

As a person he ain't great.

As a President? Dude is kicking ass.

 

[WTF2008]

Because it's the only place in that part of the world that is not loaded to the gills with fanatical mouth-breathing inbred savages.

Even if it was, they have over 200 nuclear weapons including ICBMs. They're one of the more advanced countries on earth despite the fact that they're completely surrounded by backward people that have contributed virtually nothing to human progress in over 500 years.

That is why every US President kisses Israel's ass.

The reason they have nukes is because of the US.

I think it's still up for debate as to why they're bending us over without firing a shot.