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yea that's the dealbreaker lmao
this is something that is misusing the context of the word 'protector' in arabic. the words wali/auliya can have the following meanings:
Wali - protector, helper, friend, guardian, supporter etc
Auliya - lords, gods, protectors, helpers, guardians, supporters
so when god says he is the only wali vs the believers/angels being wali, the meaning can change. to me its kinda like how in english there is The Lord (God) and the lord in the castle.
I'm no Muslim apologist, but if contradictions in the holy books are suddenly a dealbreaker, then every religion is gonna need to close up shop. Not just the snack bar.
your gonna have to narrow that down bro, theres about 50 guys called Muhammad living in one council house up the road from me, fuck knows how many there are at KFC.Wasnt the Q'ran written by Muhammad?
It says protector or helper so any meaning is covered. But I see why they would try to play that semantical sleight of hand.
Also, if it meant god or lord it would have been translated as that.
Luke 14: 26 hate your parents, siblings, etc. Elsewhere it says love everyone?Really? You want to post some from the bible? I have time.
Really? You want to post some from the bible? I have time.
yes that is what it says in english.
No it's kinda pointless, is my point.
People are the ones who are responsible for their actions, not books.
No it's kinda pointless, is my point.
People are the ones who are responsible for their actions, not books.
Not really sure there are many people in the WR who need convincing of this.
Well, regardless I'm not sure those are the best verses. A Muslim could say that while angels and people protect each other ultimately everything is decided and protected by Allah and that those people/angels are acting as His agents.
That's the thing about religions and holy books in the Abrahamic tradition, you can always retcon or fill in plot holes with "God/Allah/YHWH can do whatever he wants even if you don't understand it"
In favor of this.I'm no Muslim apologist, but if contradictions in the holy books are suddenly a dealbreaker, then every religion is gonna need to close up shop. Not just the snack bar.
The experts agree that it means helpers. The same meaning expressed in different languages.
Not really sure there are many people in the WR who need convincing of this.
Well, regardless I'm not sure those are the best verses. A Muslim could say that while angels and people protect each other ultimately everything is decided and protected by Allah and that those people/angels are acting as His agents.
That's the thing about religions and holy books in the Abrahamic tradition, you can always retcon or fill in plot holes with "God/Allah/YHWH can do whatever he wants even if you don't understand it"
@tramendous seems to have given a better response.Muslims can say what they want, but does it reconcile the verses? Do muslims have no other helper than allah or do angels also help muslims?
1) muslims have no protector or helper other than allah.
2) muslims have protectors other than allah (other muslims and angels)
Which is true 1 or 2. Both cannot be true.