Is this an A level athlete?

[kikikhan]

Haha. Nicely done.

I think a lot of the trouble comes from specialized sports dominating the Olys and Major American sports. Ie. guys get to the top if they are really, really really good at doing ONE thing. But, anytime someone can chuck a shotput or run a marathon at a really, really high level it is due to genetic predisposition to that one movement plus specialized training in that movement/duration.

Mikey Phelps is an A-level athlete, but we only know this because he dominated a highly competitive sport. He has huge hands and feet, short legs, a dolphin's torso and insane shoulder rotation. He's been built to succeed at swimming.

When a sport is well-rounded and involves strength, power, flexibility, mental toughness, anaerobic/lactic thresholds, speed, aerobic capacity, etc etc etc - then there simply isn't an athlete who could be highly successful at a sport like that WHILE being world class at a specialized sport.

An A level football player, lifter, runner, swimmer, jumper, thrower, gymnast, pitcher is a different type of A-level than is an A-level; rugby player, MMA'r, crossfitter, decathlete.

But, the beauty of well-rounded sports is that there is a place for anyone who adapts the training. You can be weakish in some areas, and don't have to be the very best at any area - and still be competitive if you put your game together to the best of your genetic abilities.

Very well said.

 

[tombombadil]

This is an A level athlete, and you will probably never see someone as talented as this compete in a shallow sport like MMA:

Ashton is def A-level, and in a great sport.

I agree with you that the deeper competed sports are going to produce more top end talent, and that to make it to the top you have to be amazing. However, I also think that the very best in MMA are at A-level. Its a tough sport to judge because its so damaging that guys don't get a lot of chances to compete against the best for very many 'games'.

I think that 'gaps' really help determine the depth of a sports field. Track is beautiful because the stopwatch and the measuring tape don't lie. You know who has done the best ever, whereas in MMA or hockey or whatever, all the numbers are reliant on opponent, so they aren't static, and become kind of meaningless.

But, take the stopwatch away from track, and you'll see a trend that, at the very best events, the gaps are small from first-20th and on. Go to a college meet, the gaps widen, highschool even moreso.

When you see a fighter that is so much better than everyone, or all but one or two others, there is likely a lot of growth left for that division, or sport.

In hockey, a lot of oldtimers will contend that Bobby Orr was the greatest player ever, or Gretzky - due to the massive gaps between them and the rest of the league. It just tells me that the Euros had yet to come, and there was no money in the sport, no intelligent training and diet teams, etc.

So, I agree with what you've put, except with one exception: I do feel that Orr and Gretzky would absolutely hang in today's NHL, especially were they brought up as kids in the current system. The best make it to the top, and usually the best will adapt if they find themselves as not the best. The top guys in the UFC are really good athletes, with some exceptions due to the sport involving the element of 'chin'.

 

[Sgt Smith]

I still don't get this whole athletic level debate when it comes to MMA. There are intangible qualities that make a good combat sports athlete that athleticism cannot account for. JJ Watt having great skills for football does not necessarily mean he'd be a force in combat sports. The only telling thing is that he plays in a sport that necessitates contact. Vertical leap, bench press, etc. really have very little translation and I think fans are getting a little too enthralled with this idea. It's really only part of the make up of a fighter.

 

[Bull Terrier]

Now let's look who applies is better.


JJ OR Brock


There is no discussion Brock's NFL career pales in comparison to JJ.


It's not even a discussion. The UFC will never see a JJ watt ever.

Lesnar was already beat up from wrestling when he got those numbers, and hadn't played any football at a high level. Athletically, he is physically comparable to Watt.

So yes, UFC has seen a guy like that.

 

[Bull Terrier]

Ashton is def A-level, and in a great sport.

I agree with you that the deeper competed sports are going to produce more top end talent, and that to make it to the top you have to be amazing. However, I also think that the very best in MMA are at A-level. Its a tough sport to judge because its so damaging that guys don't get a lot of chances to compete against the best for very many 'games'.

I think that 'gaps' really help determine the depth of a sports field. Track is beautiful because the stopwatch and the measuring tape don't lie. You know who has done the best ever, whereas in MMA or hockey or whatever, all the numbers are reliant on opponent, so they aren't static, and become kind of meaningless.

But, take the stopwatch away from track, and you'll see a trend that, at the very best events, the gaps are small from first-20th and on. Go to a college meet, the gaps widen, highschool even moreso.

When you see a fighter that is so much better than everyone, or all but one or two others, there is likely a lot of growth left for that division, or sport.

In hockey, a lot of oldtimers will contend that Bobby Orr was the greatest player ever, or Gretzky - due to the massive gaps between them and the rest of the league. It just tells me that the Euros had yet to come, and there was no money in the sport, no intelligent training and diet teams, etc.

So, I agree with what you've put, except with one exception: I do feel that Orr and Gretzky would absolutely hang in today's NHL, especially were they brought up as kids in the current system. The best make it to the top, and usually the best will adapt if they find themselves as not the best. The top guys in the UFC are really good athletes, with some exceptions due to the sport involving the element of 'chin'.

Great post.

 

[KONG-D'SNT-TAP]

Lesnar was already beat up from wrestling when he got those numbers, and hadn't played any football at a high level. Athletically, he is physically comparable to Watt.

So yes, UFC has seen a guy like that.

No it hasn't.

Watt is on a level above Lesnar.

ill never agree with you so you can keep carrying in all day long.


JJ watt with two years training would own everyone at HW.

 

[Sgt Smith]

Lesnar was already beat up from wrestling when he got those numbers, and hadn't played any football at a high level. Athletically, he is physically comparable to Watt.

So yes, UFC has seen a guy like that.

And yet his biggest downfall was the most important and most overlooked by those focused on athleticism...he was not great at taking a hit. Don't get me wrong, he excelled. But ultimately that was the thing that held him back the most. I'm sure everyone will point to the diverticulitis, which I'm sure had an impact. But I think his departure says something that he knew. Not everyone is cut out for combat sports.

 

[TreeSmoker]

This is pretty simple. Fighting is mostly mental. There are plenty of C and B level athletes holding belts.

A-Level athletes are considered A-level because they have high level measurables.

In MMA you don't need to be as athletic as individuals who compete in singular activities. You have to have decent psychical abilities and the right mind.

 

[tombombadil]

Watch this season of Hard Knocks to see what an A level athlete looks like.


6'6 288 pound JJ Watt. Genetic freak. The way he moves, his agility, his strength for a man of his size has not been seen inMMA.

If he trained for two years he would destroy everyone. And he's only25.

He's to busy with his 100 million dollar contract in the nfl though. MMA will never see these types of athletes.

I will be checking him out. Bit of a freak lover. Used to love Jonah Lomu on the AllBlacks.

There is one thing, though - your max explosive movements decrease when you start slogging the hard minutes of an endurance-involved sport. Football players, olympic lifters, powerlifters have ridiculous abilities, but they are only training the creatine-phospate system (I probably have this part wrong, technically) that involves everything in the nervous system firing in under 10 seconds. There are two other pathways (aerobic and anaerobic) and basically, you can't have it all.

If you look at the biggest props in rugby, you'll see very powerfully built men who come in around 270, usually. Why so much smaller than football? Is it cuz Americans are just that special? Nope, its because those guys play 80 minute games and never sub off. They run for up to 37 minutes/game average. Football player is playing about 5 minutes over a more drawn out game - in tiny, little explosive sets.

Same type of human, different type of training.

If someone like Yoel Romero decided to cut out all the cardio when he was 15, and work on just throwing something, or jumping - he'd be freaky as fuck.

 

[h0lydiver]

No it hasn't.

Watt is on a level above Lesnar.

ill never agree with you so you can keep carrying in all day long.


JJ watt with two years training would own everyone at HW.

5 years if he has the intangibles, 2 years he get's destroyed due to having no combat sports background. you are very stupid if you are sure otherwise. A-level will get you nowhere against good ground fighters in mma. 2 years is not enough.

 

[gspieler]

Now let's look who applies is better.


JJ OR Brock


There is no discussion Brock's NFL career pales in comparison to JJ.


It's not even a discussion. The UFC will never see a JJ watt ever.

JJ Watt is a better football player than Brock because JJ Watt is a football player; Brock was a wrestler who tried to get into the NFL with no experience, just for the hell of it. The reason he didn't make it had nothing to do with athleticism, and everything to do with not being a football player to begin with, ie having the sport-specific iq and skills necessary to succeed at it. The same way if JJ tried to make it in wrestling in his 20's, he would've gotten his ass handed to him by guys that would never even sniff the Olympics, let alone medal at them. Both great athletes, but tying to compare their athletic abilities by comparing how they did in a single sport only one of them competed in is asinine.

 

[Bull Terrier]

No it hasn't.

Watt is on a level above Lesnar.

ill never agree with you so you can keep carrying in all day long.


JJ watt with two years training would own everyone at HW.

So despite the numbers posted, which are the only actual data we have to physically compare the two, you are basically just going to say "I don't care about the information we have at hand because I just know Watt is a better athlete and that's that".

Come on man.

 

[karatekick1]

This is an A level athlete, and you will probably never see someone as talented as this compete in a shallow sport like MMA:

If he gave MMA a chance with only two years of martial arts training he'd get smashed like everyone else.

 

[tombombadil]

So despite the numbers posted, which are the only actual data we have to physically compare the two, you are basically just going to say "I don't care about the information we have at hand because I just know Watt is a better athlete and that's that".

Come on man.

lol!

 

[karatekick1]

JJ Watt is a better football player than Brock because JJ Watt is a football player; Brock was a wrestler who tried to get into the NFL with no experience, just for the hell of it. The reason he didn't make it had nothing to do with athleticism, and everything to do with not being a football player to begin with, ie having the sport-specific iq and skills necessary to succeed at it. The same way if JJ tried to make it in wrestling in his 20's, he would've gotten his ass handed to him by guys that would never he sniff the Olympics, let alone medal at them. Both great athletes, but tying to compare their athletic abilities by comparing how they did in a single sport only one of them competed in is asinine.

Agreed, it's like some of these guys have never played a sport in their life.

 

[Sgt Smith]

Watch this season of Hard Knocks to see what an A level athlete looks like.


6'6 288 pound JJ Watt. Genetic freak. The way he moves, his agility, his strength for a man of his size has not been seen inMMA.

If he trained for two years he would destroy everyone. And he's only25.

There is simply no empirical evidence to qualify this. What you meant to say is "he might destroy everyone".

 

[Bull Terrier]

If he gave MMA a chance with only two years of martial arts training he'd get smashed like everyone else.

Of course.

There are many intangibles when it comes to fighting that other athletes may well lack, like a killer instinct, their reaction to being hit etc, and the top MMA fighters are impressive specimens themselves.

 

[kikikhan]

Canseco is A level, right?

 

[karatekick1]

I will be checking him out. Bit of a freak lover. Used to love Jonah Lomu on the AllBlacks.

There is one thing, though - your max explosive movements decrease when you start slogging the hard minutes of an endurance-involved sport. Football players, olympic lifters, powerlifters have ridiculous abilities, but they are only training the creatine-phospate system (I probably have this part wrong, technically) that involves everything in the nervous system firing in under 10 seconds. There are two other pathways (aerobic and anaerobic) and basically, you can't have it all.

If you look at the biggest props in rugby, you'll see very powerfully built men who come in around 270, usually. Why so much smaller than football? Is it cuz Americans are just that special? Nope, its because those guys play 80 minute games and never sub off. They run for up to 37 minutes/game average. Football player is playing about 5 minutes over a more drawn out game - in tiny, little explosive sets.

Same type of human, different type of training.

If someone like Yoel Romero decided to cut out all the cardio when he was 15, and work on just throwing something, or jumping - he'd be freaky as fuck.

I agree, some people believe "A level athletes" have next level co-ordination and stuff as well though.

 

[Crimson Glory]

So, in other words, he's about as good of an athlete as Brock, whom the "A-level" fanboys on Sherdog claim is a C-level washout who wasn't athletic enough to make it in a real sport.

If anyones actually said that they're an idiot. Apparantly he ran more like a 4.65, which is amazing, considering he's over 280 lbs.

I'm no football expert, just got into it this year, but Brock never actually played Football in High School from what I understand. His lack of success in the NFL was probably more due to lacking experience with the sport.



C-level athletes can't do this.