Is there such a thing as muscle memory for cardio ?

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We all know that people who take breaks from strenght training can get their strenght back more easily than people who never trained before , are things the same after cardio breaks ?
Lung memory :D :D
 
I would say so.
If you take a high level athlete who’s out of shape vs a guy in peak condition for his body but they both have the same conditioning. The high level athlete will improve much faster with the same training
 
In my experience no

Cardio goes to shit fast if i dont do it and takes time to come back atleast for me
 
In my experience no

Cardio goes to shit fast if i dont do it and takes time to come back atleast for me
Yeah that's what i was thinking , if you take a break from strenght training even for a year you will still be strong.If you take a break from cardio for 6 months your cardio will go completely.
 
I would say so.
If you take a high level athlete who’s out of shape vs a guy in peak condition for his body but they both have the same conditioning. The high level athlete will improve much faster with the same training

I'd guess the "muscle memory" comes from the heart and diaphragm having been previously built up and not losing all their previous conditioning.

But IMO as a former track and distance runner who's been running for 30+ years, the bigger factor is people have vastly differing baselines for "untrained" depending on the activity. Body mechanics and efficiency vary hugely among individuals even adjusting for weight. My best 2-mile time was something like 11:20 which is good but not elite. College track guys can do sub 10. My buddy who was a national level swimmer could only manage 13 min while in shape and in season.

I could get off the couch after not running for 6 months and do an 8 min mile in my sleep, while my buddy with the same height and weight might struggle to do it in 10 min. But an elite runner would do a 5:30 mile easy and might take a month to get back down to <5 race pace.
 
I'd guess the "muscle memory" comes from the heart and diaphragm having been previously built up and not losing all their previous conditioning.

But IMO as a former track and distance runner who's been running for 30+ years, the bigger factor is people have vastly differing baselines for "untrained" depending on the activity. Body mechanics and efficiency vary hugely among individuals even adjusting for weight. My best 2-mile time was something like 11:20 which is good but not elite. College track guys can do sub 10. My buddy who was a national level swimmer could only manage 13 min while in shape and in season.

I could get off the couch after not running for 6 months and do an 8 min mile in my sleep, while my buddy with the same height and weight might struggle to do it in 10 min. But an elite runner would do a 5:30 mile easy and might take a month to get back down to <5 race pace.
Isn’t improving your baseline the same thing for muscle memory in strength training?

ie. a guy who benches 500 vs a guy who benches 135

You can completely lose your cardio and your strength. But if you are trained they 100% will come back faster than a guy making noob gains
 
Isn’t improving your baseline the same thing for muscle memory in strength training?

ie. a guy who benches 500 vs a guy who benches 135

You can completely lose your cardio and your strength. But if you are trained they 100% will come back faster than a guy making noob gains

IMO they're apples and oranges.

IME strength gains have a much higher ceiling than "cardio" because with proper training and diet, most people can substantially increase muscle size and strength for years. But it takes many years of dedicated training to achieve your genetic max for strength. There are many instances of dedicated lifters increasing their bench and squat every year for 10-20 years after age 18. A novice lifter will almost always make faster relative gains than an advanced lifter but in absolute terms, of course a previously advanced lifter will more quickly get back to a 500 lbs bench after a break in training.

For cardio, once you've achieved healthy weight and body composition for your sport (that's the rub for most "untrained" people), there's a much smaller range for VO2 max improvement and you're going to hit the inflection point of diminishing returns much sooner than in strength training. "Muscle memory" is also a little misleading because in general the less muscle mass you have, the better your cardio will be for LISS.

In the military I saw a lot of otherwise healthy 18-25 yo kids that had to comply with height-weight standards and 5 day/week group runs. On the PT test days, you'd see a lot of guys with the same height, weight and approximate body composition, who had all been doing the same prescribed group training and had the same diet. Run times were all over the place. IMO any healthy man under 30 yo should be able to run 2 miles under 16 min with proper training. But some guys just can't break ~13 min even with dedicated training and they're already skinny with low bf% and physically resemble competitive runners.
 
We all know that people who take breaks from strenght training can get their strenght back more easily than people who never trained before , are things the same after cardio breaks ?
Lung memory :D :D

Hell no. You fee like carrying an extra weight when you spar after a long time off. I've heard about strength training that it's still there but it makes no sense to me, if you mean RAW strength memory
 
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IMO they're apples and oranges.

IME strength gains have a much higher ceiling than "cardio" because with proper training and diet, most people can substantially increase muscle size and strength for years. But it takes many years of dedicated training to achieve your genetic max for strength. There are many instances of dedicated lifters increasing their bench and squat every year for 10-20 years after age 18. A novice lifter will almost always make faster relative gains than an advanced lifter but in absolute terms, of course a previously advanced lifter will more quickly get back to a 500 lbs bench after a break in training.

For cardio, once you've achieved healthy weight and body composition for your sport (that's the rub for most "untrained" people), there's a much smaller range for VO2 max improvement and you're going to hit the inflection point of diminishing returns much sooner than in strength training. "Muscle memory" is also a little misleading because in general the less muscle mass you have, the better your cardio will be for LISS.

In the military I saw a lot of otherwise healthy 18-25 yo kids that had to comply with height-weight standards and 5 day/week group runs. On the PT test days, you'd see a lot of guys with the same height, weight and approximate body composition, who had all been doing the same prescribed group training and had the same diet. Run times were all over the place. IMO any healthy man under 30 yo should be able to run 2 miles under 16 min with proper training. But some guys just can't break ~13 min even with dedicated training and they're already skinny with low bf% and physically resemble competitive runners.

Cardio is for sure genetic. Conor Mcgreggor has openly said he has done everything they've told him to and his cardio is still not what it should be, and it's a puzzle to him.
 
Cardio is for sure genetic. Conor Mcgreggor has openly said he has done everything they've told him to and his cardio is still not what it should be, and it's a puzzle to him.

His lack of cardio is overrated , one of the things he was doing for cardio for the second Diaz fight was riding a bike, which is nothing and he still went 5 hard rounds with him.
 
His lack of cardio is overrated , one of the things he was doing for cardio for the second Diaz fight was riding a bike, which is nothing and he still went 5 hard rounds with him.

He is breathing with his mouth open after 2 rounds. His cardio is dog shit
 
Cardio is for sure genetic. Conor Mcgreggor has openly said he has done everything they've told him to and his cardio is still not what it should be, and it's a puzzle to him.

McG is interesting because while genetic cardio is probably a factor, he does explode a lot (to great effect) and that gases you out like nothing else. That's why guys like Yoel will stall for 10 minutes before exploding and knocking your head into orbit.

While I'm sure Diaz has better "pure cardio" than McG, his style is almost tailor made to go the distance. Shit wrestling with no explosion and slow volume punches. He could probably do that all day.
 
McG is interesting because while genetic cardio is probably a factor, he does explode a lot (to great effect) and that gases you out like nothing else. That's why guys like Yoel will stall for 10 minutes before exploding and knocking your head into orbit.

While I'm sure Diaz has better "pure cardio" than McG, his style is almost tailor made to go the distance. Shit wrestling with no explosion and slow volume punches. He could probably do that all day.

I wouldn't say conor "exploded" much against Diaz in those two fights. They boxed straight up both of them. And he has said himself that his cardio is poor.
 
Yes. Stroke volume and heart rate are both adaptations that will stick around and must be built up over time. 99% of the time people talk about genetics they talking out their ass. It the very top like Phelps vs Locke or whatever maybe but its hilarious to see 8min miles talked about like some genetic equilibrium or maximum.
 
Yes. Stroke volume and heart rate are both adaptations that will stick around and must be built up over time. 99% of the time people talk about genetics they talking out their ass. It the very top like Phelps vs Locke or whatever maybe but its hilarious to see 8min miles talked about like some genetic equilibrium or maximum.

I don't think anyone itt mentioned 8 min miles as a genetic maximum. I used it as a figure for an untrained baseline. As in "I could run an 8 min mile in my sleep" from untrained. But a lot of guys would struggle to do that from untrained, even if they're otherwise healthy weight and bf%.

As I mentioned, what I think may be close to a genetic max for a lot of people is breaking 13 min over 2 miles without losing an unhealthy amount of muscle. If you've served in the military then you know what I'm talking about.

The reason most people have bad cardio is because they're fat.
 
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Also this thread reminded me how much i hate running
 
I don't think anyone itt mentioned 8 min miles as a genetic maximum. I used it as a figure for an untrained baseline. As in "I could run an 8 min mile in my sleep" from untrained. But a lot of guys would struggle to do that from untrained, even if they're otherwise healthy weight and bf%.

As I mentioned, what I think may be close to a genetic max for a lot of people is breaking 13 min over 2 miles without losing an unhealthy amount of muscle. If you've served in the military then you know what I'm talking about.

The reason most people have bad cardio is because they're fat.

I understood you to be saying you can develope elite "cardio" easier or quicker than elitlestrength. I disagree. It takes years to reach your max on "cardio" just like weights. I don't think the ceiling is lower.

Most of the American military are no where close to their genetic potential in terms of their fitness, if you've served in the military you know what I'm talking about. I think you could crush 13 for 2 if you really wanted to. Most dudes want a big bench first and thats what they get good at but you can really improve your cardio with the right effort.
 
I understood you to be saying you can develope elite "cardio" easier or quicker than elitlestrength. I disagree. It takes years to reach your max on "cardio" just like weights. I don't think the ceiling is lower.

Most of the American military are no where close to their genetic potential in terms of their fitness, if you've served in the military you know what I'm talking about. I think you could crush 13 for 2 if you really wanted to. Most dudes want a big bench first and thats what they get good at but you can really improve your cardio with the right effort.


I never said most of the American military is close to their genetic potential. There are pogues in every unit but the average combat arms soldier is significantly more fit than the average American. I also said that around 13 min 2 miles is attainable for most guys but entails making some compromises in size and strength. To get much faster than that over 2 miles (unless you have above average running genetics), you have to train more like a distance runner not a soldier. It's the converse of how training like a powerlifter and weighing 350 lbs is going to make you gas the fuck out over a 12 mile ruck march in full battle rattle and prevent you from finishing under 3 hours.

Most people don't have the genetic potential for either elite cardio or elite strength. For those that do or even for the average gym bro, it's common to see dedicated strength-trained men increase muscle mass and absolute strength for 10+ years after reaching adulthood. For most it's a matter of eating more, lifting heavier weight and getting enough recovery. Rinse and repeat for 10 or more years.

Cardio is different. It's literally a bodyweight exercise so the less you weigh the better cardio you're going to have. Once you're at an ideal running bodyweight and otherwise healthy (the hard part for most people), it takes much less than 10 years before you reach the inflection point after which improvement will be almost nonexistent unless you lose weight.
 
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My best 2-mile time was something like 11:20 which is good but not elite.
For military It is most likely elite level.
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As if for some normatives ( not mandatory all of them ) 3000 meters in 12:38 is considered as very good result for tests.
I forget age group, most likely it was 18-30 or 19-27y.o.
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