Is Rumble the third greatest LHW of all time?

[mkt]

I've never seen a non title rewarding run like Rumble's and we probably never will again, he would smash every LHW champion that came before Jones.

Yep. Gus, Glover, Davis, Bader were all very nice wins. They aged well, too, as Davis and Bader are still relevant fighters in Bellator (though the competition there at LHW/HW has even less depth than the UFC). He also flatlined Manuwa who has wins over Corey Anderson and Błachowicz and beat Little Nog who was on a 2-fight win streak. Little Nog was still a decent fighter at the time and had only been KO'd once before that (Sokoudjou in Pride).

Besides the Cormier fights, he finished 5 good-to-great fighters in just over 10 minutes total. That's insane. I can't think of anyone else who's done that, at least in modern MMA against Top 10 fighters.

 

[Poatan Power]

Rumble is 11-2 in LHW with only losses to Cormier. Wins over Glover, Gus, Bader, Davis and Lil Nog.

Thoughts?

This in and of itself should tell you the answer is no.

Hate on Wanderlei or Hendo all you want, Rumble isn't going 11-2 against the guys they fought in PRIDE/UFC. Glover made it to the top. Chuck and Randy are multiple time champions. Shogun won the PRIDE GP and UFC title. What the hell were you thinking in this topic?

I feel like you're making this more of an "in theory who wins" than an actual top 10 all time rankings.

Rumble has a couple good years at LHW where he was a scary guy.. but that doesn't rank him higher than people like Wand and Chuck who won titles and defended them. I would even put Rashad and Forrest Griffin over Rumble in all time great LHW rankings.

Same. How cool Rumble was and how scary doesn't equate to title wins, defenses and storied careers.

 

[mkt]

This in and of itself should tell you the answer is no.

Hate on Wanderlei or Hendo all you want, Rumble isn't going 11-2 against the guys they fought in PRIDE/UFC. Glover made it to the top. Chuck and Randy are multiple time champions. Shogun won the PRIDE GP and UFC title. What the hell were you thinking in this topic?

Same. How cool Rumble was and how scary doesn't equate to title wins, defenses and storied careers.

See the post above yours. None of your Pride boys faced an Olympic-caliber wrestler like Cormier who was also well-rounded (MUCH better than 40-year old Mark Coleman in Pride). And none of them would walk through the 5 guys Rumble did in 10 minutes total. Wand couldn't even beat Tito in his prime and had issues with Arona's wrestling. Cormier would 50-45 him and the others all day like prime GSP used to do.

 

[Poatan Power]

See the post above yours. None of your Pride boys faced an Olympic-caliber wrestler like Cormier who was also well-rounded (MUCH better than 40-year old Mark Coleman in Pride). And none of them would walk through the 5 guys Rumble did in 10 minutes total. Wand couldn't even beat Tito in his prime and had issues with Arona's wrestling. Cormier would 50-45 him and the others all day like prime GSP used to do.

If we're using time machines, then the guys I mentioned would just time travel and learn better wrestling. Derp. 1992-2000 Olympic wrestlers would have been slaughtered because they had no standup game. Which is why they weren't fighting at the pinnacle of MMA at the time -- they couldn't fight. All they did was wrestle.

IF we're gonna use time machines...

For that matter idc what you guys "think" Rumble would have done or DC would have done 20 years ago. They built their game on the shoulders of those that came before thema nd accomplished more than them

 

[mkt]

If we're using time machines, then the guys I mentioned would just time travel and learn better wrestling. Derp. 1992-2000 Olympic wrestlers would have been slaughtered because they had no standup game. Which is why they weren't fighting at the pinnacle of MMA at the time -- they couldn't fight. All they did was wrestle.

How many Olympic wrestlers have made it to elite levels of MMA such as DC? I'll wait.

This has nothing to do with time machines. DC wrested his whole life and all of those guys knew wrestling was a big part of MMA since the very beginning. Everyone saw Severn and Coleman in early UFCs. He'd take them down and keep them there...and there's nothing they could do about it.

Yeah, not all Olympic wrestlers did that well in MMA. You're actually making my point. DC actually had a striking game, too, along with good transitions and an iron chin. Rumble shouldn't be penalized for only losing to the 2nd best LHW ever. Sokoudjou walked into Pride and KO'd prime Arona and Little Nog. Prime Rumble would've been like 10X Sokoudjou version 5.0. in Pride.

 

[Taric]

None of your Pride boys faced an Olympic-caliber wrestler like Cormier who was also well-rounded (MUCH better than 40-year old Mark Coleman in Pride).

It'd just like to point out to the class that Cormier's greatest accomplishment as a wrestler was receiving a bronze as at the worlds (96kg).... Both Coleman and Lindland are world silver medalists (100kg & 85kg).

 

[mkt]

It'd just like to point out to the class that Cormier's greatest accomplishment as a wrestler was receiving a bronze as at the worlds (96kg).... Both Coleman and Lindland are world silver medalists (100kg & 85kg).

Fine but Coleman was figured out in 1997 by Mo Smith and left the UFC in 2000 on a 3-fight streak. He was over 40 when he fought guys like Fedor and Shogun and was a 1-trick pony fighter. Cormier was a much better MMA fighter and more effective MMA wrestler (guys like Coleman and Randleman got submitted a lot).

 

[Trevis]

He's the third strongest for sure, not the third most decorated as he didn't win the title.

All the other candidates would most likely not last 3 exchanges, let alone a single round with him. Glover himself got the belt at age 40+ but when he fought him he got kod as soon as he entered his boxing range.

 

[WOLVERINEKILLS]

Rumble was an awesome striker but when it went to the ground he would fold.

Couture, Hendo could do to him what DC did.

Vitor is a bad match up stylistically and another bad style on the feet would be someone not listed yet that I recall: Mousasi.

Shogun seems like the right #3 choice, but Rumble is probably top 7 at least, top 10 at worst.

 

[Franklin U.]

There could be a solid " timeline" debate between rumbles stretch @ 205 which impressively started in WSOF all way through to KO of Xander in his backyard+ 3 impressive cage naps he administered in between DC fights and pride Mauricio plus him putting a quick end to the anticipated machida era.

Looking at the proper list , I'd actually buy rather than sell considering the gamut of KOs rumble had and who he did it to.


*fun fact - when DC pulled out of initial rematch due to injury , mw gegard mousasi was at his peak and " begging" to step in to fight the powerful rumble for a possible interim lhw title.
Rumble declined and media was all over him for not fighting the smaller man. Anthony answered with impressive honest tongue and gave Moose his props.

RIP AJohnson-

 

[Taric]

Fine but Coleman was figured out in 1997 by Mo Smith and left the UFC in 2000 on a 3-fight streak.

You're aware that Coleman was the #1 ranked HW in the world from 2000-2001, correct?
Cormier and Coleman spent the same length of time as the #1 HW.

 

[DestinedAussie]

So it got me wondering, if you have Jones as the first, then DC for the second, for the argument's sake, the spot for the third spot is pretty wide.

Shogun
Hendo
Machida
Glover
Rampage
Wanderlei
Chuck/Tito/Couture
Bader/Davis/Anderson
Gustaffson

I'd like to think Shogun, but then against Shogun lost to Hendo twice, who in turn lost to many guys on that list.

Then, it just dawned on me, though his LHW career was short, and may he rest in peace, perhaps Rumble is the third greatest LHW of all time.

Rumble is 11-2 in LHW with only losses to Cormier. Wins over Glover, Gus, Bader, Davis and Lil Nog.

He had a pretty good wrestling, shut down wrestling of Davis and Bader, who are really great wrestlers in their own right, but just Cormier was better everywhere, and he had great power and was a great striker and he could wrestle too. The only downside is that he had questionable fight IQs at times, his submission defense wasn't the greatest, and with all due respect, he seemed to wilt if things didn't go his way.

But overall, I wonder if Rumble isn't the third best LHW that we've seen so far, even considering briefness of his LHW tenure and his relative weaknesses.

Thoughts?

I think there are plenty. I mean I know Chuck had a bad end, but the guy had 5 title wins and aggressive striking in a way that wasn't really seen before that. To me that is greater than anything rumble achieved.

Rumble could have been great but he retired early and was clearly never making the weight again.

 

[DayV]

Fine but Coleman was figured out in 1997 by Mo Smith and left the UFC in 2000 on a 3-fight streak. He was over 40 when he fought guys like Fedor and Shogun and was a 1-trick pony fighter. Cormier was a much better MMA fighter and more effective MMA wrestler (guys like Coleman and Randleman got submitted a lot).

Coleman would win Smith and Rizzo fights under modern judging, he dominated 80% of fight. Especially Rizzo fight was robbery.

I bet Coleman and Randleman would outwrestle Comier in MMA fight and keep him on his back on the ground. There is higher probability that they would take him down with fast explosive double leg from a far, than he would them with single leg where he has to approach very close.

Also if DC had to fight in Pride rules and take 4-5 fights per year without gameplaning for moths with dozen of coaches & analysts, submission specialists like Sperry, Yoshida, Bustamante would pull guard and submitt him with GI kimono.

 

[mkt]

I bet Coleman and Randleman would outwrestle Comier in MMA fight and keep him on his back on the ground.

Absolutely not. Cormier was better than either of them at pure wrestling and MMA wrestling. We're talking about a guy who scooped up Josh Barnett and slammed him. And even at an old age, he beat Stipe (himself a good wrestler) convincingly in their first fight and totally dominated and submitted Derrick Lewis (big guy who was hard to keep down) with ease. Randy Couture beat Coleman and Randleman and Cormier was Randy 2.0 in every way possible (better wrestler, much better striker with KO power, was never submitted himself but submitted several big-named guys).

Take off your Pride-colored sunglasses and look at reality for a change.

 

[mkt]

Rumble was an awesome striker but when it went to the ground he would fold.

Couture, Hendo could do to him what DC did.

Vitor is a bad match up stylistically and another bad style on the feet would be someone not listed yet that I recall: Mousasi.

Shogun seems like the right #3 choice, but Rumble is probably top 7 at least, top 10 at worst.

Couture didn't have Cormier's striking and would lose to Rumble worse than he did to Chuck in their last 2 fights. Terrible stylistic match-up. And did you say Hendo was going to submit someone? Did you ever watch his fights? Man, this place is like a mental asylum at times.

Phil Davis' takedowns were as good as Randy's and he's a much better MMA wrestler than Hendo. Did you see his fight with Rumble?

 

[mmadeewana]

People forget Frank Shamrock and Tito Ortiz were dominant champions.

 

[David Street]

No

 

[pankrat]

See the post above yours. None of your Pride boys faced an Olympic-caliber wrestler like Cormier who was also well-rounded (MUCH better than 40-year old Mark Coleman in Pride). And none of them would walk through the 5 guys Rumble did in 10 minutes total. Wand couldn't even beat Tito in his prime and had issues with Arona's wrestling. Cormier would 50-45 him and the others all day like prime GSP used to do.

Actually, Hendo and Rumble have a Pride boy as common opponent in Vitor Belfort, which didnt go wel for Johnson. Cormier btw made quiker work of prime Rumble than he did of 44 years old Hendo.

Rumble was a force but a bit of a front runner. He was also susceptible of getting caught in the ground. Apart from his flawed defense of the rear naked choke, he was also saved by the bell when Branch had him in a triangle.

 

[HavokHarmon]

As amazing as Rumble was he doesn’t have the accolades to be considered among the greatest lhws of all time.

 

[corrupted]

Shogun or wand

This. Wand was not Wand when he got to the UFC. If he had sat out and not fought in the OWGP, think he would have beaten Hendo and come over to the UFC fresher. Those two last fights took years off his life and effectively rendered him far less of a threat to the elite at that time. But in his prime. He was the gun at a knife fight

Shogun just ran in to Jones too early. If Rashad had made it to the fight they had scheduled I think he would have won and likely had the beating of the rest of the division apart from Jones.

I want to say Wand. But so many of those brutal wins in pride were against 185ers. And he was juiced to the gills. I'd give Shogun the nod over Wand. But I can see why others might not