Is Rumble the third greatest LHW of all time?

Migdagen said:
Wanderlei? really? Rumble destroy any version of Wanderlei inside 1 round
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I don't think so sir.

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Hypetrainofthemonth said:
Well tge think is DC is both better & greater than Wanderlei, so not sure what the guy you quoted is trying to get across, hahaha.
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Thing about Wanderlei is, for one, I'm not sure whatever he was on during PRIDE era wouldn't explode on its own if you let it out in the open too long.

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So, there's that. And as great s Wanderlei was in PRIDE, he wasn't half as good in UFC. Now was that wear and tear or...

I don't necessarily like Cormier, but can't deny that he just lost to absolute bests as well.

But yeah, not really my thing to spend energy talking up UFC shill Cormier, lol, but I'd have Shogun over Wanderlei anyways.
 
Foghorn Leghorn said:
Good thread @JustOnce, it's something I've thought about a lot as well. I know a lot of people are taking issue with you putting DC at number two, and who should go where in the rest of the top. I think in theory I agree with DC being #2, but I'm open to having my mind changed on who should be there.

On the premise of the thread though, yeah I think you can really make that case. He might be the biggest power puncher of all time, certainly in the conversation. The biggest issue with Rumble was his mental lapses in fights, and in my opinion he's something of a frontrunner.

I really like his chances against a lot of the other all-timers, especially the ones who would have been willing to trade with him (I'm looking at you, Chuck, Wanderlei, Shogun). It would be interesting to see how his wrestling would hold up against people like Randy, Rashad, Hendo, Tito in his day. Obviously he did well against Bader and Davis, but those guys all bring something a little different to the table.

Rampage and Machida I think are tough matchups for him as well. Vitor obviously beat him, and since Rumble missed weight by so much he was technically LHW himself in that fight.

TLDR; I think the argument is a legitimate one to make in theory. I don't think it's a fair argument to make in practice, just because of the lack of a title and relatively short LHW career. I think Rumble's place in our collective memory should be as a fighter who cut too much weight early in his career, figured it out eventually, and established himself as perhaps the premiere power puncher of in the organization's history. That is a hell of an accolade to claim.

I'd give him a great shot against a lot of these guys, but the way he lost at Lightweight (Clementi), Welterweight (Koscheck) were not entirely different from how DC beat him at Light Heavyweight. It's fair to say giving up his back, was a consistent weakness he had, and I think a counterpoint here is that a lot of these other ATGs have solid grappling and the skill/tenacity to hang around in fights where he might eventually crack.
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Well said and articulated, you are pretty spot on about his strengths and weaknesses, Rumble in my opinion is one of those guys who kinda crumbles if things doesn't go his way, like Vitor, but so good that he can starch you and/or dominate if you can't withstand the fire coming your way. Cormier could do that and some more.

I do agree Rampage and Machida are most interesting match ups, it is indeed. I do think Rumble hits harder with better wrestling, as evident in Bader fights where Rumble was so dominant, though you can argue Rampage was past peak, but still. But Rampage had a great boxing, chin and heart, so it would've been very interesting, and Machida with his elusiveness and kicks, could've been very interesting too.

They may bring something different, but they weren't wrestlers that Bader and Davis is. It wouldn't have been pretty.

You summed him up well, and you are right that he may have claim for such, and it is also true he did have holes. But like said, you gotta get through his skillset and fire coming your way. I don't see anyone from that group doing that at LHW. He also did get better too later on. I don't see Rumble from WW days beating guys like Glover, Gus and so on.

People forget, but Rumble was a JUCO wrestling champ too so he was NOT a bad wrestler, and he was young too. He was only 28 when he lost to Vitor at catchweight. It had horrendous stand up call too. He went 13-2 after that, only losing to Cormier.
 
JustOnce said:
I think Rumble's a better version of Rampage.
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Rampage had a good ground game in his prime. A lot of people only watched him in the ufc where he was primarily a striker.
 
Mike said:
Rampage had a good ground game in his prime. A lot of people only watched him in the ufc where he was primarily a striker.
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Yeah, the hardest part is deciding which era of Rampage we're talking about here. Are we talking about the Pride era Rampage that mixed things up more often, or are we talking about the boxing focused Rampage from later in his UFC career?

Honestly, Rumble vs Rampage is probably the fight that intrigues me the most of all the possibilities here. Let's say it's the Rampage of UFC 92 that starched Wanderlei against the Rumble of his run to the LHW title. That is a hell of a fight. I'm inclined to believe that Rampage could survive his shots, at least enough to return some good ones of his own. I think Rampage had more heart/grit/determination/tenacity/whatever term you want to use than Rumble, so it'd be interesting to see what happened if Rumble hit him with some big shots, he didn't go down, and then Rampage hit him back pretty good. It feels like a tossup to me, though perhaps I'd lean a little more to Rumble's side because of his kicking ability.

I think you're sleeping on the pre-Shogun loss Machida, @JustOnce. Thiago Silva and Sokoudjou were both big hitters, he had no problems with them. People had a very difficult time with his style, and I think a unique style like that could fluster a guy like Rumble, causing him to doubt himself.

EDIT: Gonna have to go back and watch Clementi and Koscheck beat Rumble to see if they are reminiscent of DC's win over him. Great win for both guys, given Rumble didn't lose to anyone else at WW (they should retroactively overturn that Kevin Burns fight, good grief).

Also, fwiw, I believe Rumble beats, I suppose probably sleeps, the Jon Jones who fought Dominick Reyes and Thiago Santos. I don't know if Jon wasn't trying, was hurt, was over the hill, or what in those fights. But his wrestling did not look good and he would have struggled mightily to take Rumble down (albeit, to Jon's credit I'm sure he would have been coming in looking for a choke).
 
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Mike said:
Rampage had a good ground game in his prime. A lot of people only watched him in the ufc where he was primarily a striker.
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Rumble's a better wrestler at LHW. Much better credentials, and Rumble was incomparably better against a common opponent in Bader who's a great MMA wrestler.

People forget Rumble was a young guy at 28 when he fought Vitor. He went 13-2 after losing only to Rampage.
 
JustOnce said:
Rumble's a better wrestler at LHW. Much better credentials, and Rumble was incomparably better against a common opponent in Bader who's a great MMA wrestler.

People forget Rumble was a young guy at 28 when he fought Vitor. He went 13-2 after losing only to Rampage.
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Oh come on Page was shot by the bader fight
 
Nah, not even top 10. He never won a title but has some great wins on his resume he also doesn't have the longevity compared to other LHW's. Chuck, DC, Rampage and Shogun are definitely ahead of him.
 
@JustOnce, just rewatched Rumble/Koscheck. Haven't got time for Clementi and the DC fights, but the Koscheck one gave me similar vibes to what I remember from the DC fights. Koscheck took some pretty good shots from Rumble, including a big right hand as he was charging in in the first round.

Downed knee/eye-poking shenanigans aside, Koscheck beats on Rumble at the end of R1 on the ground pretty good. Gets to a similar position in R2, lands some good GnP, and Rumble has a look on his face like he wants out of there. Barely defended the RNC.

Tbh, great fight for that era. I think both guys from that fight would easily find themselves in the WW rankings nowadays, not sure where. But ranked for sure.
 
JustOnce said:
Rumble's a better wrestler at LHW. Much better credentials, and Rumble was incomparably better against a common opponent in Bader who's a great MMA wrestler.
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Hardly fair comparing Rumble who's in his 20's with 25 fights deep into his career as a fresh recent former title challenger compared to a guy who's already highly decorated in his mid 30's with 42 fights deep into his career.
 
JustOnce said:
Rumble's a better wrestler at LHW. Much better credentials, and Rumble was incomparably better against a common opponent in Bader who's a great MMA wrestler.

People forget Rumble was a young guy at 28 when he fought Vitor. He went 13-2 after losing only to Rampage.
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You mean DC, correct?;):p
 
Damn, Clementi actually choked him out cold (I don't think that's what was on the record). you can clearly hear Herb talking to him about waking up.

I don't necessarily think it's a "fair" fight to judge a fighter on, because the context they provided during the fight was that rumble came in on short notice, struggled with the weight cut and gassed pretty bad. His cardio was much better vs koscheck, for example. Yet the results were the same. Rich survived a few big shots. He hung in there, and then eventually Rumble scored a takedown but was so pooped he lost the position, was taken down himself, and easily gave up his back as he did in his other losses.

I think it's reasonable to suggest that Rumble's power at welterweight, while absolutely huge, did not translate quite as effectively in that division as it did in his bulked up 205 division. I also think it is a testament to just how good that 170 lbs division was at that time.

In hindsight, I'm not sure why he didn't go to middleweight instead/stay there when he got there. He could have been an all time great there, as well.
 
Foghorn Leghorn said:
Damn, Clementi actually choked him out cold (I don't think that's what was on the record). you can clearly hear Herb talking to him about waking up.

I don't necessarily think it's a "fair" fight to judge a fighter on, because the context they provided during the fight was that rumble came in on short notice, struggled with the weight cut and gassed pretty bad. His cardio was much better vs koscheck, for example. Yet the results were the same. Rich survived a few big shots. He hung in there, and then eventually Rumble scored a takedown but was so pooped he lost the position, was taken down himself, and easily gave up his back as he did in his other losses.

I think it's reasonable to suggest that Rumble's power at welterweight, while absolutely huge, did not translate quite as effectively in that division as it did in his bulked up 205 division. I also think it is a testament to just how good that 170 lbs division was at that time.

In hindsight, I'm not sure why he didn't go to middleweight instead/stay there when he got there. He could have been an all time great there, as well.
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Rumble was only 25 years old when he fought Kos whereas Kos was at his absolute peak. He fought GSP a year later, and he was 23 when he fought Clementi. To put that into perspective, Paddy is 28 years old.

I think Rumble is a clear case of a guy who really benefited from fighting in a weight class he didn't have to kill himself to make weight. I mean he couldn't even make 185, which seemed ridiculous at times, and because he was a young fighter fighting at high level but also training at a good camp, I think he really evolved as a fighter.

Careerwise, obviously he wouldn't come close against many, but not sure who he wouldn't be favoured against other than DC and Cormier at LHW historically.
 
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