Is Oleksandr Usyk in your top 10 ATG rankings?

[SandisLL]

There seems to be a lot of misinformation out there about Briedis. As a teen he started out as an amateur boxer, switched to kickboxing, and then back to boxing after turning pro in 2009. He used to be a police officer.

“I started boxing when I was 14 years old. Then I switched to kickboxing for some time with pretty good success, winning European Championships and finishing on the podium in the World Championships.

“It was very natural for me to later come back to the thing I liked more – boxing.”

Source

KB and boxing he had mentioned cos competions.
AFAIK he had more am fights in KB than in boxing and didn't had big scale achievements in am boxing ( continental or world level medals ).
KBer version btw IMHO was more watchable than boxer version.

Briedis had competed also under kick light and low kick rules too.
2

Am boxing wasn't so effective for him. He didn't had managed to get compete in Games.

However he had stopped in distance continental level medalist he previously had L on cards . ...

 

[SandisLL]

No, that was a flat out quit job by Dubois not a real KO. Wlad got snakecharmed by Fury because he was told that he would KO him before the fight. Got into his head before the fight even began. Again, Fury is great at playing mindgames.

Wlad was then more bussiessman rather than pro boxer plus had a lot of other more serious for him problems to solve. Plus a bit over the hill and a bit too lazy too.

 

[brundlefly]

This period wasn't weak CW era period. The same Usyk had prime shape undefeated in pro boxing opponents.
Definitely Briedis isn't HoFer and I think he doesn't care about HoF at all. What stuff you had expected? Usyk finishing Briedis in distance? No one ever had did this, nor in KB nor boxing...
Yes, Usyk barely had win vs Briedis and if it wasn't 12 rounder but 15 ...maybe might lost. However Briedis was a bit worse than Holyfield then. .a bit.
Plus Holy was better am boxer than Briedis, Briedis more was KBer....
Not to count in later later lazy versions...ofc.

so, from the beginning, the cruiserweight division was weak and it continued to be weak until the usyk era when it became strong, and after the usyk era it went back to being weak, is that it?

of course CW was weak during the usyk era. i mean, how come there were no standout american or western fighters during the usyk CW era? look at all the deep divisions in boxing. From 135-154 you have elite fighters from all the US, mexico and latin america, eastern europe, etc. Why was the CW division elite pretty much just eastern europeans during the usyk era?

If you look at the history of the cruiserweight division, it was guys like holyfield and toney, haye and gomez that were the dominant fighters. Suddenly, there are NO american, not even any latin american or western fighters in the CW division and that's when usyk rises up through the ranks and becomes champ by beating glowacki, breidis and gassiev. not that those three aren't good fighters. but the LACK of quality american and western fighters shows it was a weak division.

 

[SandisLL]

so, from the beginning, the cruiserweight division was weak and it continued to be weak until the usyk era when it became strong, and after the usyk era it went back to being weak, is that it?

of course CW was weak during the usyk era. i mean, how come there were no standout american or western fighters during the usyk CW era? look at all the deep divisions in boxing. From 135-154 you have elite fighters from all the US, mexico and latin america, eastern europe, etc. Why was the CW division elite pretty much just eastern europeans during the usyk era?

If you look at the history of the cruiserweight division, it was guys like holyfield and toney, haye and gomez that were the dominant fighters. Suddenly, there are NO american, not even any latin american or western fighters in the CW division and that's when usyk rises up through the ranks and becomes champ by beating glowacki, breidis and gassiev. not that those three aren't good fighters. but the LACK of quality american and western fighters shows it was a weak division.

You maybe are tribal nationalist.
CW era then had a lot of undefeated in pro boxing cotenders and fighters competing for world titles etc...
Yes, pro boxing is business for entartainment. Trademark: Don King.

.

While your claims that there weren't boxers claiming title for CW belts are empty.
Dorticos had world title in CW.
Tabiti was co tender for world title.
Perez had option to fight in WBSS to get world title belt and even more than just this.
BTW Dorticos and Tabiti had good sales effect in europe. For live gates.
Hunter then was undefeated prospect too....normal btw then. Usyk had fought him ( Hunter ) in U.S. undefeated version in prime shape.

 

[Kovalev's "Man Bag"]

You maybe are tribal nationalist.

There's no "maybe", he is a tribalist from the LDBC.

 

[that Indian]

I saw a quote (not sure of the validity) that Usyk started boxing at 15. If so, that makes his accomplishments even more impressive. He moves so fluidly and naturally. I would have thought he started much earlier. I know he lost to Shawn Porter around age 20, so that story seems to check out as he was just finding his way.

 

[Kovalev's "Man Bag"]

I saw a quote (not sure of the validity) that Usyk started boxing at 15. If so, that makes his accomplishments even more impressive. He moves so fluidly and naturally. I would have thought he started much earlier. I know he lost to Shawn Porter around age 20, so that story seems to check out as he was just finding his way.

That's when he started boxing which is considered late. He was turned away by several local coaches/trainers back then and was told that he was too old to start boxing. When he lost to Porter he wasn't even world level yet. He'd only been boxing for a couple years.

 

[SandisLL]

Tabiti in Usyk CW career time was undefeated prospect in pro boxing and he did damn rare stuff: he had win via UD vs undefeated in pro boxing russian prospect in Russia.
So " bad " division ofc.

 

[Doctor Grudge]

The golden age of CW happened during Usyk's rise to the top. If not, then when?

Saying it was a weak era because it didn't have an American CW...is odd and backward. I feel like that guy is just oblivious to how promoting works in boxing. Promoters do not like to promote CW boxing in the United States since it already had been tainted with the "they're smaller HWs", even prestige weight class like 175 has always struggled with having draws in the United States for that very stereotype.

This doesn't mean that CW is not viable in other places. This is the same nonsense as people in America assuming there aren't any good fighters under LW because they're not familiar with any. CW boxing was successful in Central and Eastern Europe. Americans are not going to promote fighters from that side of the world.

It may not have been the best weight class ever, but calling it weak makes no sense. It was as good and interesting as CW had ever been. If someone were to make a ranking of the best CWs of all time, many of of the fighters on that list fought Usyk.

 

[SandisLL]

The golden age of CW happened during Usyk's rise to the top. If not, then when?

Saying it was a weak era because it didn't have an American CW...is odd and backward. I feel like that guy is just oblivious to how promoting works in boxing. Promoters do not like to promote CW boxing in the United States since it already had been tainted with the "they're smaller HWs", even prestige weight class like 175 has always struggled with having draws in the United States for that very stereotype.

This doesn't mean that CW is not viable in other places. This is the same nonsense as people in America assuming there aren't any good fighters under LW because they're not familiar with any. CW boxing was successful in Central and Eastern Europe. Americans are not going to promote fighters from that side of the world.

It may not have been the best weight class ever, but calling it weak makes no sense. It was as good and interesting as CW had ever been. If someone were to make a ranking of the best CWs of all time, many of of the fighters on that list fought Usyk.

They did had.

For CW Dorticos, then undefeated world title holder, Tabiti and Hunter as undefeated prospects plus Perez ( CW variant was in better shape, more difficult to hit properly and more active and more mobile too ).

 

[Intermission]

Mike Tyson beats him and Mike is not considered top 10. More like 15

 

[burningspear]

It will unfold in time, I remember when Lewis wasnt everyones darling, now most rate him top 5.

 

[treelo]

That's when he started boxing which is considered late. He was turned away by several local coaches/trainers back then and was told that he was too old to start boxing. When he lost to Porter he wasn't even world level yet. He'd only been boxing for a couple years.

he only started boxing so late because he wanted to be a pro footballer, but his mother and father didnt have the money for him to travel to games and for the equipment, so he joined a local gym instead if i recall correctly

 

[Kovalev's "Man Bag"]

he only started boxing so late because he wanted to be a pro footballer, but his mother and father didnt have the money for him to travel to games and for the equipment, so he joined a local gym instead if i recall correctly

Yes. Football was his first choice but that was ruled out pretty quickly for financial reasons.

 

[Dana's Moonface]

Beat everyone at middleweight, never got a shot at the title.
Moved up to light-heavyweight, beat everyone there too, never got a shot at the title.
Moved up to heavyweight, finally got a shot at the title and won it.

All of that without modern training methods, no possibility to study opponents on tape and with a world war in between. It's really not comparable with so many decades in between, but at the same time you can't ignore the old timers.

Great post
Charles is easily among the very best ever. Evolution of sports exist, but video evidence shows how great some of these guys where who as you say, didn't have the luxury to fight twice per year and study tape of opponents. They lack the strength/muscle if modern fighters, with supplements, peds etc, but They where tough, tough men and had insane stamina. Old school boxing training will get you extremely fit

 

[SandisLL]

Great post
Charles is easily among the very best ever. Evolution of sports exist, but video evidence shows how great some of these guys where who as you say, didn't have the luxury to fight twice per year and study tape of opponents. They lack the strength/muscle if modern fighters, with supplements, peds etc, but They where tough, tough men and had insane stamina. Old school boxing training will get you extremely fit

PEDs golden era was 1970 ies till middle of 1990 ies : lack of testing methods lagged behind PEDs industry boom seriously... ... ...
Not only PEDs but also stuff used to make weight for weight ins.

Shit to assist dehydration plus saunas cycles for example etc.


When since late 1980 ies there were significantly more cameras in different levels and angles PLUS options to slow down tape playing speed from 1:1 to 0.75, 0.5, 0.25 : this allowed to research opponents more, ofc.
Also their high level am bouts etc stuff.

 

[SandisLL]

Luxury to fight 2 x per 1 year in some cases was not good for them, sometimes was good for them.

Mainly were cos clauses in fight contracts and long negotiation time for next contracts etc..also where will be next fight etc too, ofc.

BTW negotiations about fights might take 1 day till months and about clauses too plus the same...

While boxers are more free with their ad deals contracts and endorsement deals contracts....

Ofc there are so much variables in the game: for example you might use agent to get next fight and it is usually 1 single deal..he will get %...
Or for ad/ endorsement deals ( it isn't for fights deals ).
You get ad/ ed deal, agent might ask from 0 till 50% from deal cos it isn't fight deal....so not under Ali act.
Sometimes businesses are paying agents some % to get athletes to agee advertise their gear or other production.

 

[SandisLL]

Term KB had been widely used in era when SMS were limited till 160 symbols for one message. Sometimes with or without spaces between letters and/ or text ....1990 ies era.
Desrcibing Kickboxing in short with KB.
Lesser = better.

 

[codfather]

No, probably top 30-50
Great fighter, but not enough wins and not enough great wins

His cruiser run was immense, but these lumps at heavy are not great and they are all from one country. The brits have never had so many top fighters and chisora still being top 10 years past his best says everything

I suspect Usyk has the talent to be top 10 ir so and doing this at 38 is amazing, but he just doesn't have enough wins on his resume and a zero isn't everything, especially when you fight once per year against the same guys

In 1993, 3 of the top 5 heavyweights in the world were black guys born in London; Lewis, Bruno and Akinwande.

In 2019, 0 of the top 5 heavyweights in the world were black guys born in London, despite that the number of black people in London roughly doubling since 1993.

 

[codfather]

I asked AI to analyze an Usyk vs Tyson matchup. It's a fun read IMO:

A hypothetical matchup between Oleksandr Usyk and Mike Tyson is a dream scenario that pits two very different styles and eras against each other. Here's a breakdown of how such a fight might play out:

---

Fighter Profiles​

Mike Tyson​

• Era: 1980s–1990s
• Style: Explosive power, peek-a-boo defense, aggressive pressure
• Strengths: Devastating early-round knockouts, head movement, body shots
• Weaknesses: Struggled against taller, more technical boxers with good footwork

Oleksandr Usyk​

• Era: 2010s–2020s
• Style: Southpaw, high ring IQ, elite footwork and stamina
• Strengths: Tactical adaptability, movement, combination punching
• Weaknesses: Less one-punch KO power, can be vulnerable early before adjusting

---

Tactical Matchup​

Attribute	Advantage
Power	Tyson
Speed	Usyk
Footwork	Usyk
Defense	Usyk
Chin	Even
Ring IQ	Usyk
Aggression	Tyson

• Early Rounds: Tyson would likely come out swinging, trying to overwhelm Usyk with pressure and power. Usyk’s challenge would be surviving the storm and using lateral movement to avoid exchanges.
• Middle to Late Rounds: If Usyk withstands the early barrage, his superior conditioning and tactical adjustments could allow him to outbox Tyson, especially if Tyson tires or becomes frustrated.

---

Modern vs. Classic Edge​

If both fighters were in their prime and had access to modern training, Usyk might have the edge due to his adaptability and ability to neutralize aggression. But if the fight happened under 1980s conditions, Tyson’s raw power and intensity could overwhelm Usyk early.

---

Chin is absolutely not even.

38 year old Usyk has never been stopped.
Tyson was stopped 5 times before his 39th birthday:

1. Buster Douglas
2. Holyfield
3. Lennox
4. Danny Williams
5. Kevin McBride