Is Oleksandr Usyk in your top 10 ATG rankings?

[Tatra]

I don’t know what Usyk can or can’t do at this point. But what I can guarantee is he wouldn’t lose to Buster Douglas

Not only would he not lose to Douglas, he'd completely dominate him and knock him out late.

 

[Doctor Grudge]

nope. probably not that close either. boxing's history is too rich

 

[Takes Two To Tango]

nope. probably not that close either. boxing's history is too rich

True, but what can Usyk do to crack at least the top 20?

 

[Doctor Grudge]

True, but what can Usyk do to crack at least the top 20?

He's retiring in one fight, so probably nothing.


He might be a top 20 guy already, I'd have to think about it. At least I wouldn't think that's crazy since his CW career was very rich. But he's not like #11 all time I reckon.

Usyk started his pro career late, so it was unlikely he'd build up the resume to be a GOAT candidate even if he was perfect.

 

[StopDucking]

People saying Usyk only fought 5 opponents are just hating. Usyk has 8 wins at HW, not 5. His second wins over Joshua, Fury and Dubois are just as meaningful as his first if not more meaningful given that Joshua and Fury have a history of overperforming in rematches and Dubois was even higher ranked the second time around.

If Ali beat Foreman twice instead of once, would you hold that against him? If Mayweather beat Canelo twice instead of once, would you hold that against him? No, you wouldn’t. So why are Usyk’s rematch wins discredited?

 

[Takes Two To Tango]

He's retiring in one fight, so probably nothing.


He might be a top 20 guy already, I'd have to think about it. At least I wouldn't think that's crazy since his CW career was very rich. But he's not like #11 all time I reckon.

Usyk started his pro career late, so it was unlikely he'd build up the resume to be a GOAT candidate even if he was perfect.

I see, that's all good.

What's your top 20 look like? If you don't mind creating and posting it.

 

[defjaam]

But what I can guarantee is he wouldn’t lose to Buster Douglas

Just like the betting odds 42-1 that guaranteed a Tyson victory.

 

[Kovalev's "Man Bag"]

Just like the betting odds 42-1 that guaranteed a Tyson victory.

Victory is never guaranteed at heavyweight. Buster just greatly overperformed that night and never did so again. That's why he's known as a one-hit-wonder. I'd take Usyk by stoppage. Buster would've looked for a way out just like he did against other opponents (*cough* like the flop against Holyfield).

 

[Dr Fong]

I don’t know what Usyk can or can’t do at this point. But what I can guarantee is he wouldn’t lose to Buster Douglas

A) You literally could not guarantee that

B) You certainly couldn't guarantee that after Usyk already had 37 HW fights in the space of 4 years

Usyk fluffers have become quite silly

Edit - 5 years - I won't just change it to weasle out of my mistake. Point stands.

 

[Dr Fong]

Victory is never guaranteed at heavyweight. Buster just greatly overperformed that night and never did so again. That's why he's known as a one-hit-wonder. I'd take Usyk by stoppage. Buster would've looked for a way out just like he did against other opponents (*cough* like the flop against Holyfield).

I'm glad you recognize that. It is the entire point of this discussion. And why beating 5 men, 3 of them serious, is not sufficient for an all-time HW legacy.

 

[StopDucking]

I'm glad you recognize that. It is the entire point of this discussion. And why beating 5 men, 3 of them serious, is not sufficient for an all-time HW legacy.

Those 3 serious, he beat them twice. That’s 6 great wins. Why would you take that away from him?

 

[Kovalev's "Man Bag"]

I'm glad you recognize that. It is the entire point of this discussion. And why beating 5 men, 3 of them serious, is not sufficient for an all-time HW legacy.

Cleaning out the top guys in the division is what you're supposed to do. From this point on Usyk can only take a step down against the likes of opponents like Parker. He's going to be mentioned all-time regardless because he's a legitimate 2x undisputed heavyweight champ. No controversy. Roy only ever had a single heavyweight fight against John Ruiz and that's still mentioned. Usyk's had 8 heavyweight fights. If his WSB fights are counted (they used to be), where he went 6-0 against Joyce and other top amateur heavies, then he's 14-0 at heavyweight.

 

[Kovalev's "Man Bag"]

Why would you take that away from him?

He's still pissed that Usyk chose to rematch Dubois last Saturday instead of fighting Parker. That's why.

 

[baconCrunch]

so after he beat dubois, it all of a sudden elevates usyk as a top 10 ATG?

the answer is NO.

 

[Dr Fong]

Those 3 serious, he beat them twice. That’s 6 great wins. Why would you take that away from him?

I'd say 4 'great' wins. 2 good ones.

Dubois won't hold up all that much historically, despite the boxing math that will no doubt try to claim him as a better win than AJ.

 

[Dr Fong]

He's still pissed that Usyk chose to rematch Dubois last Saturday instead of fighting Parker. That's why.

I deal in facts. The Rematch King is the Rematch King.

7 years since he fought at CW. 5 opponents.

If he fights Kabayel and Parker in his send-off fights, I will have no beef.

 

[Kovalev's "Man Bag"]

I deal in facts. The Rematch King is the Rematch King.

7 years since he fought at CW. 5 opponents.

If he fights Kabayel and Parker in his send-off fights, I will have no beef.

Boxing is full of rematches and trilogies and they're often unavoidable. All but 1 of them in Usyk's career were contractually obligated. Sorry, this isn't MMA. Yeah, he was inactive and only fighting once a year at heavyweight. If anything that only makes his wins over top guys that much more impressive. Speaking of inactivity your guy Parker has only boxed a single round in the last 16 months. If he does fight Usyk next at the end of the year with no tune-up in-between then he'll have been quite inactive for nearly 2 years (aside from the round he completed against Bakole earlier this year). Meaning you'll already have a built-in excuse for when he loses.

 

[Blastbeat]

It's interesting to see Tyson denigrated in a thread about Usyk, because one of the biggest reasons Usyk gets such an enthusiastic reacharound from everybody is his size.

We put someone who wasted too much of his pro career either fighting at cruiserweight or sitting on the bench on a pedestal, while shitting on a significantly smaller man who stepped in against HWs from day one. And sometimes fought double the amount of them in a single year.

Mike was always a big muscular guy though, even as a teenager. He started out as a heavyweight. Usyk on the other hand was a smaller guy coming up; in the amateurs he competed as low as middleweight.
It took time for Usyk to bulk up to be as big as he is now. And even so, i have heard him mention before that he still has to bulk up a bit before fights.
Perhaps if Usyk was a naturally bigger dude, he would've started at heavyweight. But thats all speculation.

 

[Kovalev's "Man Bag"]

Mike was always a big muscular guy though, even as a teenager. He started out as a heavyweight. Usyk on the other hand was a smaller guy coming up; in the amateurs he competed as low as middleweight.
It took time for Usyk to bulk up to be as big as he is now. And even so, i have heard him mention before that he still has to bulk up a bit before fights.
Perhaps if Usyk was a naturally bigger dude, he would've started at heavyweight. But thats all speculation.

Yeah, Mike was never a big heavyweight but naturally he was always a heavyweight. He was like 190+ lbs when he was just a young teenager. Usyk at 20 years old was still only 165 lbs. Like you said he had to bulk up over the years to get to cruiser and then bulk up again to fill out at heavyweight.

 

[defjaam]

Yeah, Mike was never a big heavyweight but naturally he was always a heavyweight. He was like 190+ lbs when he was just a young teenager. Usyk at 20 years old was still only 165 lbs. Like you said he had to bulk up over the years to get to cruiser and then bulk up again to fill out at heavyweight.

Maybe numerically he was, but essentially he was a cruiserweight fighting heavyweights.