Is Max a Better Featherweight than Charles is a Lightweight?

[JustBleed69]

Looking at their resumés, I'm honestly not sure who was better in their division.

They are both Top 3-5 All-Time in their respective divisions. My knee-jeek reaction was that Max is better, but then when I think about Charles's insane win streak to the top, mixed with the finish records, the title reign, finishing Dustin, Justin, Chandler, Dariush, Gamrot etc. idk, I think it's a lot closer than people might imagine.
But then again, Max did stop Jose Aldo twice, granted, Jose had already lost to Conor at that point, but still. Max also has the win over a pre-prime Charles similar to how Conor has the win over a pre-prime Max.

It's a toss-up in my opinion, but would like to hear people arguments one way or the other.

 

[former lurker]

No

 

[FreddieRoachsVoice]

Both are excellent so I don't want to sound like I'm saying Max is overrated because he isn't but IMHO Charles is better.

Charles faced a variety of different style match-ups and displayed a much more well-rounded skill-set than Max who would have struggled if he faced a wrestler IMO.

The Aldo wins were legit and Aldo was still in his prime but I think that Max was a very bad match-up for Aldo (who always struggled with his cardio) and that this led to a bit of an overreaction with everyone suddenly pushing Max as the new FW GOAT when in reality he, like many others who reach the top, was a defending champion but not actually the best there ever was.

Ortega is a complete fraud and has lost more rounds than he's won in the UFC (even in his wins) and really who else is there that stands out that much who isn't a striker? Lamas? Good fighter but not exactly of the calibre Charles has been facing.

Max has the better chin, is a better volume striker, and has a slight cardio edge (wouldn't matter at 155) but IMO Charles is clearly the better finisher, the better offensive grappler, and has beaten better competition. He has the edge for me

 

[theincognito]

Max is the better fighter and has had the better career.

But Max's win over pre-prime Charles consisted of Charles injuring his own neck on a takedown. It's closer to Aspinall/Blaydes 1 flukery. Not even worth mentioning.

 

[VinceArch]

Taking losses in, I go with Max at 145, but it's close. Oliveira has been so hot/cold for me to pick him consistently.

 

[Makani]

I think the guys Max can't beat are better than the guys that Charles can't beat. But I also think Charles has a much more well-rounded skillset. Both guys, along with Pereira, have been keeping MMA alive for me for a while though.

 

[rjmbrd]

Charles has one of the most impressive runs at lightweight in the history of the division. I don't see how there is even an argument, Max needs to improve his lightweight record with a dozen wins from here. Its possible but I don't see it happening.

Charles is aging out however and is likely further from him prime than Max, so we aside from this very fun fight we'll get to see what Max does the next few years.

 

[pick999]

Max made it far with ilia while Charles got finished fast

 

[rjmbrd]

I think the guys Max can't beat are better than the guys that Charles can't beat.

I'm having trouble computing this.

Charles has lost to 3 fighters in his last 15 fights:

- Islam (would absolutely SMASH Max)
- Topuria (already smashed Max)
- Arman (controversial split decision loss)

I would personally pick Arman over Max without a thought, that is a terrible fight for him, and it was a razor thin fight with Charles. So having trouble getting my head around your thinking here.

Volk would be a tough fight for Charles at 155lbs, but he has a much better chance of stopping Volk than Max does. They are not similar with regards to finishing, or even hurting guys. Max is a cardio volume puncher who takes a lot of damage. Charles is a buzz saw and freak submission artist.

 

[JustBleed69]

Max made it far with ilia while Charles got finished fast

Not the end all be all of the argument, but definitely a good point. I actually thought that fight was even up until the finish.

 

[Kung Fu Kowboy]

Max is a 4 time defending 145 champion...

 

[Aurelian]

It's close but Max.

From September 2013-present Max only lost at FW to Volk (#1 or #2 FW GOAT) and Ilia Topuria. That's it.

 

[Pancake Sprawl]

Charles has one of the most impressive runs at lightweight in the history of the division. I don't see how there is even an argument, Max needs to improve his lightweight record with a dozen wins from here. Its possible but I don't see it happening.

Charles is aging out however and is likely further from him prime than Max, so we aside from this very fun fight we'll get to see what Max does the next few years.

that's not the question. the question is if Max is a better FEATHERWEIGHT than Charles is a LW. not if Max is a better LW

 

[Pancake Sprawl]

i'm going with Max because he beat a GOAT in Jose Aldo twice. Charles never beat a GOAT level fighter

 

[BFoe]

Yes. Max accomplished more at FW than Charles at LW.
Or Charles at FW for that matter.

 

[Dorkman]

Max. He just spent more time as a top guy.

 

[KoalaBear]

i guess id say theyre about equal. good champs that took a bunch of L along da way

 

[rjmbrd]

that's not the question. the question is if Max is a better FEATHERWEIGHT than Charles is a LW. not if Max is a better LW

Yeah fair point, I didn't directly address it...

What Charles has achieved at lightweight is more impressive, and its a more competitive division overall.

Presumably we all agree Max's best win at featherweight is Aldo, and that came one fight removed from Aldo's career altering crushing KO loss to Conor. Aldo has a losing overall record since the McGregor fight, and lost 3 of his next 5 after Max.

Strength of schedule = Do Bronx
Fight finishes objectively = Do Bronx

Love both guys and have high hopes Max is going to collect a lot of signature wins at lightweight.

 

[mkt]

A lot of people are just looking at wins and opponents, but while Charles has more fights (48 vs. 36), he's been finished 9 times vs. only twice for Max. That's important in my book. Charles has a more broadly dangerous skillset (he can finish you on the feet or ground), but he gets finished a lot more often and has show poor IQ in some fights. This includes most of his submission losses and trading in the pocket early in the fight with Topuria. At least Max went into Round 3 with Ilia before he was finished.

Oliveira got finished early in his career by guys like Pettis and Lamas whom Max beat. And I can't imagine Max not completely wearing down and finishing an old, washed Chandler in a 5-round fight. Chandler is like a very poor man's version of Gaethje without leg kicks at this point.

 

[mkt]

Yeah fair point, I didn't directly address it...

What Charles has achieved at lightweight is more impressive, and its a more competitive division overall.

Presumably we all agree Max's best win at featherweight is Aldo, and that came one fight removed from Aldo's career altering crushing KO loss to Conor. Aldo has a losing overall record since the McGregor fight, and lost 3 of his next 5 after Max.

Strength of schedule = Do Bronx
Fight finishes objectively = Do Bronx

Love both guys and have high hopes Max is going to collect a lot of signature wins at lightweight.

That's only part of the picture. See my commment just below yours.