is Kickboxing Overrated

[KID Yamamoto]

Saki was a corpse by the time he came to MMA. IIRC he literally retired due to the injuries but Dana threw him a nice paycheck.

 

[MichaelT]

I dont know anything about kicboxing, but from what I've seen its like there's a few really good guys and everyone else is a can that gets fed to them, just my impression

 

[GUY]

MMA striking is way different. Jairzinho actually countered very well ngannou and did the right defensive adjustements but ngannou´s physycality is just out of this world and can swing for the fences not giving any shit.

this! what impresses me more about Ngannou is his chin. The guy was getting hit right in the chin and not only didn't go down but didn't even stop his movement.

 

[Chubi]

Kickboxing is not overrated, it's just not as useful as wrestling as a background to MMA.

 

[Dacha]

Wrestling+Kickboxing+Bjj equals mma.

Wrestling being the best base imho.

 

[ArtemV]

Yeah, and no.

Adesanya is the main kickboxing standout right now, because of his style. He never relied on big gloves to brace and block big shots with the gloves, he always moved along, and in general, is a very smart striker.

 

[danny23]

he's overreacting to jabs, that's what got him KO'd. he'd have been KO'd in boxing doing the same thing.

No. Bobbing and weaving like in boxing when you can get kicked will ensure you get head kicked. That’s what happened there. It works in boxing because you only have to dodge punches but the game is different if kicking is involved, because moving around like that will lead to the head getting slammed into a shin.

 

[HuskySamoan]

I think most martial arts can be effective.. I think the bigger thing is the quality of the school...Not all Black Belts are created equally and the same goes for schools.

Yeah man, what school was Gokhan Saki taught in?

 

[Blayt7hh]

I don’t know why these threads don’t get deleted right away. This one is so stupid that it’s painful. Congrats TS, you’re an idiot

 

[MisterWillis]

What a lot of striking purists dont want to admit is that MMA striking is a completely different skill than boxing, kickboxing, or thai boxing.

The small gloves and takedowns completely change the game. One big example is that you really can't rely on blocking anything, its all about movement in MMA. Look at TJ Dillashaw, Cruz, or Machida.. none of those styles would compete in a boxing match, but they would likely light up most in an MMA fight

This tbf

 

[Pancake Sprawl]

No. Bobbing and weaving like in boxing when you can get kicked will ensure you get head kicked. That’s what happened there. It works in boxing because you only have to dodge punches but the game is different if kicking is involved, because moving around like that will lead to the head getting slammed into a shin.

he would've been KO'd in boxing. like i said, he's overreacting to a jab. that's exactly what got him KO'd. he would've moved into a big right cross in boxing. bobbing and weaving works in MMA too, you just have to understand there's a time and place for everything.

it's like saying "kicking doesn't work in MMA because of takedowns". no, it works, you just have to know when to kick and when not to.

 

[GoatArtemLobov]

1) As a guy who has trained both (and I live in Europe where KB is VERY big), I can tell you that the big problem in kickboxing gyms is that noone teaches you footwork or headmovement. The only way of defending punches they teach you is blocking, which obviously isn't the best thing for mma, because 1) you have small gloves on and 2) standing in front of your opponent without moving will get you taken down. They also barely teach you proper punching tactics/mechanics, even at the highest levels you see guys who punch like shit... 7'0 Struve who never threw a jab in his career is a good example of how little kickboxing puts the emphasis on proper punching strategies

2) While 90% of things you learn in boxing are applicable in mma (you have to square up your stance a bit and avoid ducking punches too low but that's about it) a ton of things you learn in kickboxing will only get you taken down in an mma fight (high stance, kicking a lot etc.)

3) Money. There isn't any money in kickboxing, hence why 90% of the athletes involved in this sports are as D-level as it gets.


So yeah kickboxing is kinda overrated. Don't get me wrong, in a pure striking contest with big gloves on, a kickboxer would win against a boxer the same sizeand level 80% of the time. Now add takedowns, small gloves, and give the boxer (who is usually the superior athlete) 6 months to learn the basics of kicking defense and you know why boxers would do better than kickboxers if they were to transition to mma (but they don't since they make more money in their own sport, unlike kickboxers).


4) Actually, I would say that striking as a whole is "overrated", whether it's boxing or kickboxing, or worse, mma striking... There are 3 criterias to determine if you are good in a combat sport: sportspecific knowledge (fightIQ, technical abilities), overall athleticism (cardio, explosiveness, flexibility etc.) and aggressivity (willingness to inflict damage and acceptance to take damage). In grappling arts, as there aren't as dangerous as striking arts, the 3rd aspect is almost non-existent. Moreover, while athleticism is very important there, there aren't any equalizers in grappling arts like Ngannou's or Wilder's Ko power. Hence why the first aspect (sportspecific knowledge) is enlarged. That's why it's entirely possible that a 130 pound girl taps out a tough big athletic aggressive mfucka from the hood if she has been training for 10 years and he for 1 year. Same thing happening in a striking contest is completely impossible though, isn't it? A 130 pound college girl with 10 years of training is never going to outstrike a 200 pound guy from the hood who has 1 year of training, it's just impossible.
That's why there will always be less space for improvement in striking than there is in grappling. If I take my own example, I've put way more time training striking than I did training grappling (I have been training striking arts for 8 years and grappling arts for only 3). However, as I neither possesses natural KO power nor have that tough guy mentality, I guarantee you there is a significant amount of the population that would put me out in striking battle within 6 months of training. In grappling, I highly doubt that, because the additional athleticism or aggressivity they may have over me would fall short compared to my extra 2.5 years of training (of course I am speaking of guys who would be within 20 pounds of my weight).

Hope this makes sense.

 

[Vegeta]

Jairzinho is just a kickboxer and top 5 in the ufc.
/thread.

 

[Hassan Mouzine]

Lots of those records are fabricated. Most have 50 or 60 fights unless they are thai born or lived and trained in Thailand as nak muay. If you count the recorded wins and losses you have the real record. Records that say incomplete of famed fighters are not incomplete they just lied. See: Badr Hari

Gokhan saki comes to mind but the problem is many KB come over aged and worn down like Saki. Also used to roids which may or may not be permissible under usada. See: ubereem

hari's record is not incomplete/a lie, you have no clue what you are talking about

alof of european/dutch fighters have fights in that range. they fight 3-15 times a year. it's not like mma where they have incredibly long camps for a couple of fight a year.

guys like hari/spong/saki/aerts/hoost/holzken etc.....they have fought more than some people have trained. wiki is not the source to know his, following the sport/scene for years/decades is

 

[alex21cms]

Yeah, and no.

Adesanya is the main kickboxing standout right now, because of his style. He never relied on big gloves to brace and block big shots with the gloves, he always moved along, and in general, is a very smart striker.

izzy has never been autranged

 

[Whitewater Summer]

I don’t know about overrated but I do believe you can have more success in mma striking with a boxing approach

 

[Turdbucket]

Kickboxing is very good for selfdefence since people just love to eat kicks and throw punches but going mma not so much since people are too skilled for that shit there.

 

[Kenny95]

hari's record is not incomplete/a lie, you have no clue what you are talking about

alof of european/dutch fighters have fights in that range. they fight 3-15 times a year. it's not like mma where they have incredibly long camps for a couple of fight a year.

guys like hari/spong/saki/aerts/hoost/holzken etc.....they have fought more than some people have trained. wiki is not the source to know his, following the sport/scene for years/decades is

Dude he has about 60 recorded fights. Everythings on YouTube. I watched his 16 year old amateur debut where a skinny kid shorter than him knocks hari tf out with a spinning heel kick at a tiny amateur promotion. He has 60 or so recorded fights since his amateur debut. 106W with 92 kos and 15 losses with incomplete record is bullshit. Go count the recorded fights (recorded meaning on paper not even video) all the way back to 16 years old and it doesn't add up. They can't even fabricate dates or opponent names. Easier to just write it off as incomplete.

Edit:

 

[cheesus]

View attachment 815357 View attachment 815357Head movement when kicking is involved

Great example

 

[Berkowitz]

HAHA loved the repetition lol