Is Kesting right, how many mma/bjj guys take steroids?

[Balto]

I know it seems like a lot, but 3,000 kcal/day is fairly normal for a person who is very physically active. If you're maintaining your weight at 3,000kcal/day, you could gain weight by upping it even a little if you did it consistently and in a directed manner (e.g. 1.5 grams/lb of bodyweight protein intake, eating from nutritious sources, etc.). Of course, you'd need to actually get a feel for what your baseline actually is. Is it 3,000, or 3,500? If it was 3,000, you'd definitely gain weight on 3,500 assuming nothing else in your lifestyle changes.

When I was weight-training very heavily, I'd average about 4,000 kcal/day. It IS difficult if your food selection isn't right. lol. So, I feel you on that. But, odds are after you set aside calories for protein requirements you'd have to take in more fatty foods (salmon and red meats, avocado, nuts, natural peanut butter added to protein shakes, etc; not pizza and donuts, lol) than most people if you have a hard time eating a large volume of food. But, I'm sure you could do it if you wanted to.

This is precisely why so many athletes are on anabolic steroids and hgh. It's not always to be big and muscular, it's simply to recover quickly enough to allow for increased training frequency. I know so many guys on juice that really do not have the type of physique you would expect of a juicer. And, they do it just so they can train more frequently.

It really is hard to do it all. I can't. Most people can't. And, those who do are often pharmaceutically enhanced. lol

7-8 hrs/day great sleep. I definitely wouldn't sacrifice any more of my day to force sleep in hopes that it'd help you recover more. I really don't think it'd make that big of a difference anyhow.

Yeah on sleep just looking at my logs, I slept 7:50, 7:17, 6:49, and 7:27 for work nights this week. On the weekends I sleep more: 9:54 and 9:28 this weekend. So that is probably okay.

I could probably eat another 500 calories per day or so. I would just need to figure things out exactly and add it. Although I do try to eat more than normal when I'm lifting (not sure if it's 500 calories, but it's probably close) so I'm not sure that was the problem versus training frequency recovery.

 

[Balto]

50 lbs on a compound movement isn't bad. But, it's also not "huge". I wouldn't expect too much of a difference, either. But, if you're dead lifting 450lbs vs 225 lbs, that's a big difference

But, you definitely hit the nail on the head with that last sentence. in life in general, you've just got to pick and choose. Unfortunately, we can't do it all. After I've got my physique and strength to a point where I'm happy, I'll definitely cut back on my lifting intensity and increase my BJJ training. But, man, I would love to do both at full speed. ^_^

Oh yeah a 225 lb increase would be huge. But are most people seriously getting 225 lb increases in two months? That seems incredible to me. I will admit that I'm not an expert on this stuff, but damn that seems like a lot of weight in a short period of time.

 

[Leify]

Oh yeah a 225 lb increase would be huge. But are most people seriously getting 225 lb increases in two months? That seems incredible to me. I will admit that I'm not an expert on this stuff, but damn that seems like a lot of weight in a short period of time.

It would take an exceptional human being to put on 225 lbs to squat or deadlift in 8-9 weeks under Starting Strength (or any program really). They may also have potentially had a starting weight too low. That's 24-27 sessions, at +10 lbs every session. Adding +10 lbs to a squat every session dies off pretty quickly, and under Starting Strength you only deadlift every other session, but can add +20 lbs a session early on.

That said, 225 lbs on to a deadlift isn't crazy in a 3-4 month time period for a novice in the 180-200 lb range. Factor in weight and body dimensions, and it'll vary, but still. Squats vary in the same way, but 200 is probably near the upper limit for that same weight. I ended at 240 lbs, and put a little over 200 lbs onto my squat 5RM in about 4-5 months. I was also doing judo twice a week during progression, and eating like a fucking black hole. Was working a 9-5 desk job too, for what it's worth.

Actually, I'll just give the full big 4 rundown for you from my original training log. After 5 months, all 5RM:
Weight= 217 to 242 (6'2")
Bench= 165 to 245
OHP= 105 to 175
Squat= 125 to 335

And my deadlift was only like +100 lbs because I was lazy and puss'ed out of doing em because of how they wrecked me for judo.

 

[Balto]

It would take an exceptional human being to put on 225 lbs to squat or deadlift in 8-9 weeks under Starting Strength (or any program really). They may also have potentially had a starting weight too low. That's 24-27 sessions, at +10 lbs every session. Adding +10 lbs to a squat every session dies off pretty quickly, and under Starting Strength you only deadlift every other session, but can add +20 lbs a session early on.

That said, 225 lbs on to a deadlift isn't crazy in a 3-4 month time period for a novice in the 180-200 lb range. Factor in weight and body dimensions, and it'll vary, but still. Squats vary in the same way, but 200 is probably near the upper limit for that same weight. I ended at 240 lbs, and put a little over 200 lbs onto my squat 5RM in about 4-5 months. I was also doing judo twice a week during progression, and eating like a fucking black hole. Was working a 9-5 desk job too, for what it's worth.

Actually, I'll just give the full big 4 rundown for you from my original training log. After 5 months, all 5RM:
Weight= 217 to 242 (6'2")
Bench= 165 to 245
OHP= 105 to 175
Squat= 125 to 335

And my deadlift was only like +100 lbs because I was lazy and puss'ed out of doing em because of how they wrecked me for judo.

That is a pretty big gain on the squat especially. But I think you were starting from a pretty low number there.

If I were to start up again today, I'd probably be for 1RM like bodyweight bench, low 200s squat, high 200s deadlift. I'm about 160 lbs. So for me to like double any of those numbers would require years of work I think.

 

[anaconda]

The last one I did was twice a week split. So like bench/squat one day, deadlift/press the other. I just did the lifts to try to save time because Henry was just born. I used the 5/3/1 progression (Not Doing Jack Shit variation or something).

Like I said, progress was definitely made, but I would 100% feel it during training. I just had to get my ass kicked for a while and blame it on the baby. But mostly I was tired from lifting. I'd lift on like Tue/Thur so I was either training or lifting 5-6 days a week.

I mean we really do train pretty damn hard at our gym comparatively. Obviously I like it, or else I'd never have stuck around. But yeah it's pretty hard training most every class, especially when you're a lighter weight like me. I either get bigger guys like you and Billy or little guys like Kevin who will still tear you up.

Yeah and I'm sure the game comes into play too. It probably more directly helps my game than it does yours just due to the nature of what we each play.

 

[anaconda]

Bottom line is you're not going to be able to add much strength without at least eating a lot more, and preferably sleeping more too. But since you don't want to put in that extra effort to find those bits and pieces of time, its not worth it for the marginal return in terms of extra strength or whatever. But someone that has never lifted and can eat enough would gain so much strength initially, even lifting just twice a week would bring tremendous results which would translate to everything, incuding BJJ.

 

[Balto]

Yeah and I'm sure the game comes into play too. It probably more directly helps my game than it does yours just due to the nature of what we each play.

Your game is so much better now that you are a little lighter. You're still heavy and strong, but now you're pretty fast too. It's terrible for me to deal with.

 

[Title Fight Productions]

I want to know where this 8 hours a day idea comes from. I don't think it's true.

 

[Balto]

I want to know where this 8 hours a day idea comes from. I don't think it's true.

I think it comes from some older sleep studies where people naturally ended up sleeping about that long when they were given a chance to sleep uninterrupted. I think people usually sleep longer at first because they tend to start a little sleep deprived, but after a week or two of being able to sleep as long as they want, it settles in at about 8 hours.

I've seen a few other numbers too, but 8 hours seems to be the most common.

 

[anaconda]

Your game is so much better now that you are a little lighter. You're still heavy and strong, but now you're pretty fast too. It's terrible for me to deal with.

heh thanks, I'm planning on getting faster too...gotta figure Billy out.

 

[Title Fight Productions]

I think it comes from some older sleep studies where people naturally ended up sleeping about that long when they were given a chance to sleep uninterrupted. I think people usually sleep longer at first because they tend to start a little sleep deprived, but after a week or two of being able to sleep as long as they want, it settles in at about 8 hours.

I've seen a few other numbers too, but 8 hours seems to be the most common.

Thanks for the reply, I was actually talking about Kesting suggesting that MMA fighters train 8 hours a day.

 

[Balto]

Thanks for the reply, I was actually talking about Kesting suggesting that MMA fighters train 8 hours a day.

Lol whoops

 

[Gfreak]

Your game is so much better now that you are a little lighter. You're still heavy and strong, but now you're pretty fast too. It's terrible for me to deal with.

This also. Your BJJ "style" does affect quite a bit. When I started lifting. My lifts were something like... Bench 155, Squat 185x3 (most likely not parallel) and DL had never done before, think I started just at 135 on it.

1 year and 8 months later My lifts are: bench 210x3 (didn't focus on it, mainly just did overhead movements) OHP 135x5, squat 365x1, DL 420x1. And my coach and training partners have both said that It's a hugely noticeable difference when I"m rolling. Their words were something along the lines of. "It's not like you're just muscling anything, it's just you're impossible to move". :icon_chee My top pressure shot up dramatically after that.

 

[anaconda]

Yeah maybe that's a point I should note - when I lift more I don't feel stronger in that I can just throw people around. The biggest place I notice the added "strength" is when I'm on top. I feel wayy more stable and have a much more solid base. My posture is better. I'm just more difficult to move. Also, standing in someone's guard becomes incredibly easy.

 

[Leify]

When I am squatting regularly, I feel very explosive and nimble on my feet on the mat. X-pass, toreando, backstep pass, and foot movement in general just feels so much smoother

 

[Uchi Mata]

Yeah maybe that's a point I should note - when I lift more I don't feel stronger in that I can just throw people around. The biggest place I notice the added "strength" is when I'm on top. I feel wayy more stable and have a much more solid base. My posture is better. I'm just more difficult to move. Also, standing in someone's guard becomes incredibly easy.

This is true for me as well. My posture just gets so much better. And my grips get unbreakable. I also find I get injured less.

 

[anaconda]

When I am squatting regularly, I feel very explosive and nimble on my feet on the mat. X-pass, toreando, backstep pass, and foot movement in general just feels so much smoother

100% agree. It makes a big difference for me as well.

 

[Title Fight Productions]

Lol whoops

Ha, no worries man! I didn't even know you guys were in a deep convo about sleep. I just read the original post and then commented. Must of made sense as my post popped up in the middle of your convo.

 

[100%Jiu-Jitsu]

100% agree. It makes a big difference for me as well.

Man, this is motivational. Gonna go do some squats tomorrow morning.

 

[anaconda]

Man, this is motivational. Gonna go do some squats tomorrow morning.

honestly I start to feel it after just 2 weeks of squatting and it starts to make a real difference after about 4 weeks. The only problem is if you have competitions coming up and you have to watch the weight. Its much easier to lift heavy when you can just eat.