Is Ken Shamrock really the 'Greatest American Catch Wrestler' in history?

[Dirge]

I have no problem with you being a ken shamrock fan, I really don't have anything against him and he was a pioneer of the sport.

I was seriously surprised that he had any actual fans left.

His credibility as a fighter declined pretty quick

 

[RichardPriors]

Beyond MMA, obviously not.

Within the boundaries of MMA, I'm torn between Ken and Josh like most of the folks participating in this thread.

I think Barnett accomplished more for a longer period of time but Shamrock has pioneer status going for him. Regardless, both guys are in my personal all-time top 10.

 

[Mike K.O]

The real CACC GOAT
Shamrock can shine Tom's shoes

 

[mkt]

Imagine Barnett vs Royce. Ken wasn't the best anything. He was the first.

Different eras. That's a big fallacy around here. Just because Usain Bolt would smoke Jessie Owens, it doesn't mean Owens wasn't a great runner.

Despite what you hear from his haters, Ken was a really good fighter circa 1997 or so when he left MMA. (He was very green in UFC 1 when he fought Royce--just one year of experience.) His rematch SD loss to Severn was complicated by some really weird circumstances and last-minute rule changes...I'm not sure who would've won under the normal NHB ruleset. By the time Ken came back to MMA, he was too old, too beat up from early NHB & WWE injuries and away too long as the sport evolved. Unfortunately, that's the Ken most people remember.

Josh is certainly more evolved than Ken, but both were quite good in their primes considering the level of competition. It's really hard to make these kind of comparisons.

 

[number 9]

He would beat anyone into a living death.

Dieded

Classic

 

[dembones22]

​

.

 

[Ulti1]

Out of curiosity, who would you nominate for the title if not Ken?



Ken's submission ability exceeded the submission abilities of those three combined and by a considerably greater margin than those three's TD abilities exceeded Ken's.



Gorgeous sequence there with Ken going from palm strikes to Thai knees to a huge body lock TD. He hits another throw on Yanagisawa at 3:40.



Slick little sequence with Funaki in on a single and Ken defending and then seizing an ankle pick.



Here he controls Inagaki and brings him down hard with a powerful mat return. Incidentally, Ken's control of his opponents' upper bodies and his combination of strength and technique with body lock TDs and mat returns is virtually second-to-none, especially as far as HW fighters are concerned.



And here he catches Mo coming forward and hits a beautiful double.

He may not have been a decorated collegiate/Olympic wrestler, but his wrestling was legit all the same. When you add his submission game on top of that, who else could possibly challenge him for the title?



Who are you talking about here? Who do you think would make Ken look like an amateur on the mat?

Tito is lucky he didn’t get a piece of that ken .

 

[Ulti1]

Imagine Barnett vs Royce. Ken wasn't the best anything. He was the first.

If barnett was fighting Royce back then it really wouldn’t be Barnett now would it... Barnett learned from the guys who paved the way.

 

[TidWell]

Ken has a very vast knowledge of catch wrestling, I wonder why he stopped teaching and coaching, dude has so much knowledge to pass down.

 

[gevoudane]

Tom Jenkins
Frank Gotch
Karl Gotch
George Botner
Are some older ones to check out.

 

[TidWell]

Tom Jenkins
Frank Gotch
Karl Gotch
George Botner
Are some older ones to check out.

you know who is a modern master and has vast knowledge that Japanese teacher who trained Erik Paulson in catch wrestling , Yori Nakamura who learned catch or shoot wrestling under Tiger Mask also teaches Jeet Kune Do, Im not sure but I think Tiger Mask learned from Karl Gotch?

 

[pick999]

I love this spin.

fake and gay

 

[gevoudane]

you know who is a modern master and has vast knowledge that Japanese teacher who trained Erik Paulson in catch wrestling , Yori Nakamura who learned catch or shoot wrestling under Tiger Mask also teaches Jeet Kune Do, Im not sure but I think Tiger Mask learned from Karl Gotch?

Yea Gotch and Inoki were two of his mentors.
Sad that Paulson wasnt allowed to compete in the UFC. He might not have won but UFC 1 would probably have gone down a lot different.

 

[PancraseForever]

Ken is a top 5 GOAT in MMA for sure.

 

[Logan M]

Josh Barnett, and by a long distance.

Absolutely. Ken Shamrock is one of the most overrated fighters of all time. His only good wins (besides Severn) are in Pancrase which was full of fake fights. Those wins basically mean nothing.

 

[TidWell]

Yea Gotch and Inoki were two of his mentors.
Sad that Paulson wasnt allowed to compete in the UFC. He might not have won but UFC 1 would probably have gone down a lot different.

Erik Paulson is a good man, if that were me I would be so mad and hold a chip on my shoulder how the Gracies done him

It was foul, Rickson kicked him out of his gym before he decided to fight on a tournament that had another Gracie I think REnzo?

The Machados took Paulson in but they made him work twice as hard before promoting him, but most of Paulsons style comes from JKD and Catch wrestling.

 

[gevoudane]

Interesting catch fact, LeBell got DQ from his first judo match for using catch.

 

[gono btw]

Absolutely. Ken Shamrock is one of the most overrated fighters of all time. His only good wins (besides Severn) are in Pancrase which was full of fake fights. Those wins basically mean nothing.

 

[Wicked_1]

I would put the baby faced assasin above him every time. Hes not as in the spotlight as ken was, cause he was over seas most of the time, but he is a top fighter compared to ken. He would own ken on most nights.

 

[welcometohavoc]

Josh Barnett got GoGo’d by Ben rothwell

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