Is Judo dead?

The french judo federation tried to capitalize on the growing popularity of BJJ and organized some BJJ tourneys under the long and pedantic name "judo ne waza also called Brazilian jiujitsu". But the BJJ didn't embraced it completely, so BJJ isn't under any federation. To make this situation more complex the wrestling federation is also organizing some no gi tournaments.
 
Jonas g33k said:
The french judo federation tried to capitalize on the growing popularity of BJJ and organized some BJJ tourneys under the long and pedantic name "judo ne waza also called Brazilian jiujitsu". But the BJJ didn't embraced it completely, so BJJ isn't under any federation. To make this situation more complex the wrestling federation is also organizing some no gi tournaments.
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Typical of BJJ clubs, they cannot get organised at all.
 
I practice both. The BJJ affiliate club I train at now has 2 blue belts renting the judo clubs mat area and holds only one session per week until the numbers build up.

It's been open around a month or two and there's already up to 15 guys aged between 16 and 30 training regularly and requesting more classes.

Compare that to the 6 or 7 regulars of the same age actively practicing at my judo club and it says allot to me. Especially seeing as though 3 of the seven also take the bjj classes. The bjj is 3x more expensive with sessions that aren't as long.

I think part of the reasons are:

1. A lack of knowledge about Judo.
Many people I've grappled with have remarked that they never knew that pins/submissions etc were even legal in judo.

2. The Judo rules.
Need i say anymore. *cough* leg grabs*

3. A lack of genuine interest.
MMA, No gi, etc has just made BJJ more & more popular over the years and we're seeing the results.

I just really hope the ufc makes wrestling more popular because there's 0 wrestling clubs anywhere near me in the UK. Such a shame.
 
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The rules are definitely a turn-off, especially coming into judo from no-gi and bjj.

It was weird being told "you can't do that" or "you can't touch there".

Why?

Because of the "rules". So all these legit techniques from the judo curriculum are suddenly eliminated making it a watered down sport version of the martial art.

Interestingly, the "sport" version of bjj has more techniques than the "martial art" version - think old school Gracie curriculum.

Judo limited the number of techniques and made it less effective (and less fun), bjj added more techniques and made it less effective (but more fun).
 
georgejjr said:
I think that's dead on. I'm old enough to remember all the arguments pre-UFC, ninja-vs-karate-vs-judo-vs-boxing-vs-TKD-vs-Kung-fu etc. No one actually knew what worked and what didn't, because style vs style fights were rare and the participants anything but representative (ie Joe Recreational karateka vs John Recreational Kung-fu guy or Bill Recreational judoka) and the accounts all anecdotal (remember this was before the Internet and Youtube) on the lines of "I know someone who knows someone who saw a Kung-fu master take out six boxers".

I don't think Rousey is creating much buzz for judo; as you say, its much later, and WMMA doesn't have the same impact as men's MMA. What Rousey is doing is, or so I'm told by a local MMA club owner, getting women to try MMA. Most don't stay long, but that's true of men who start MMA as well.
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I dunno, BJj has such a lock down on the MMA interested market, it's weird. Look at AA, Fedor, and Karo Parisyan. They were all high level Sambo or Judo guys, and their success meant nothing for their respective sports. Did Machida do anything for Karate?

I dunno, I just don't see Judo being able to capitalize on this, as it is too disorganized to do so, as an organization
 


Sadly this kind of commercial had much bigger impact on judo's popularity than this shooting.

ronda-rousey-ESPN-body-issue.jpg
 
oyaji poi said:
The rules are definitely a turn-off, especially coming into judo from no-gi and bjj.
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Hell, the rules are a turn-off coming from pre-IJF rules change judo to post-IJF rules judo. :icon_lol:
 
What was that commercial about? That TMAs can beat Judo? Seriously wtf? And a 2 min commercial to show you nothing? My Jimmies are rustled
 
It's a chocolate cake supposed to be healthy for kids, so the message is about how strong you child will become if he eats it.
Since London's Olympics I see spots with Rinner on TV and Youtube, this has a much broader impact than Royce submitting some ninjas. Soccer mom's didn't watch the UFC1, but everyone watched the Olympics.
 
Judo is just not fun.

It hurts like hell and people (at least where I'm from) teach it very poorly. I remember doing randori on my first day and not having clue what to do. I was like, "are we supposed to be dancing?" and then flying in the air. I was like, "this isn't fun. I don't know anything."

I didn't like the elitism or the pedagogy or the bowing or anything else. This is juji-waka-fujigama-tume [shows a move quickly], got it? I was like "um, no, not really." And of course the instructor rolls his eyes.

And when we were changing at the end of class, half the them were talking about how bad their injuries were.
 
Daniel Tapia said:
Judo is just not fun.

It hurts like hell and people (at least where I'm from) teach it very poorly. I remember doing randori on my first day and not having clue what to do. I was like, "are we supposed to be dancing?" and then flying in the air. I was like, "this isn't fun. I don't know anything."

I didn't like the elitism or the pedagogy or the bowing or anything else. This is juji-waka-fujigama-tume [shows a move quickly], got it? I was like "um, no, not really." And of course the instructor rolls his eyes.

And when we were changing at the end of class, half the them were talking about how bad their injuries were.
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what rubbish
 
Daniel Tapia said:
Judo is just not fun.

It hurts like hell and people (at least where I'm from) teach it very poorly. I remember doing randori on my first day and not having clue what to do. I was like, "are we supposed to be dancing?" and then flying in the air. I was like, "this isn't fun. I don't know anything."

I didn't like the elitism or the pedagogy or the bowing or anything else. This is juji-waka-fujigama-tume [shows a move quickly], got it? I was like "um, no, not really." And of course the instructor rolls his eyes.

And when we were changing at the end of class, half the them were talking about how bad their injuries were.
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You just found a bad club. I started doing judo a few months ago and have had the exact opposite experience, with people being very welcoming, helpful and patient with my lack of skills.
 
If anything I'd say the training systems of the average judo club are better than the average bjj club. They often have progressive curriculums, drill the same moves every lesson and so on, in comparison to the common learn 3 moves and roll system of BJJ.
 
OK. Weird. Still mad that it was 2 mins long.

In the US Olympic judo isn't on tv
 
ElKarlo said:
I dunno, BJj has such a lock down on the MMA interested market, it's weird. Look at AA, Fedor, and Karo Parisyan. They were all high level Sambo or Judo guys, and their success meant nothing for their respective sports. Did Machida do anything for Karate?

I dunno, I just don't see Judo being able to capitalize on this, as it is too disorganized to do so, as an organization
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They all came later, after the initial impact of the first UFC's. You can add wrestling to that list, which has become almost as much a staple of MMA training as BJJ. And muy thai/boxing, at least one of which is also a pre-requisite for MMA (even karate guys like Machida or GSP also train in one or both of them).

The saying in business is first in makes the big profits. And the Gracies were the ones who took the risks(financial and otherwise) to set up the UFC's, so I can't argue they didn't deserve the rewards.

Judo's rules have more or less eliminated it as anything but a small niche for MMA (some of it is relevant, but not much - that wasn't true of judo from a couple of decades ago, but the IJF has taken care of that). Sambo like BJJ has a much better rule set for a MMA background, but it hasn't spread (again, the Gracies took financial risks that no one in sambo has done). Most modern karate (and I hear this from old time karate guys, who sound a lot like old time judo people :wink: - and there are exceptions such as Kyokushan) has devolved into point fighting dance, and again isn't that applicable to MMA. Old school karate was a much rougher, full contact sport. But those same karate old timers admit they've done much better financially with the point fighting, because of the huge kids market - I suspect your average karate/TKD dojo still does way better financially than BJJ or any other style ... they don't need MMA marketing.
 
Jonas g33k said:
It's a chocolate cake supposed to be healthy for kids, so the message is about how strong you child will become if he eats it.
Since London's Olympics I see spots with Rinner on TV and Youtube, this has a much broader impact than Royce submitting some ninjas. Soccer mom's didn't watch the UFC1, but everyone watched the Olympics.
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It sounds like judo in France has done a good job with the kid's martial arts market (the one dominated by karate and TKD in North America). Judo was pretty popular with parents/kids in the 70's here (when I started, the local dojo had full kids classes with 30+ students five days a week, most kids just coming once or twice a week), but the rule changes killed that over time, as it just stopped becoming fun for the kids because it became about what you couldn't do ... avoiding shido became more important than romping around trying different things and having a great time, which is what kids want to do.

Maybe the instructors in France have done a better job with the kids training - here they decided that whatever rules the IJF mandated had to be applied to ten year kids in club randori, which made no sense and was a disaster.
 
I actually have come to the conclusion that Gracie/Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu is closer to Kano's Judo/Jiu-Jitsu than modern Judo. The forced aggresion/shidos doesn't seam to fit the "plyable" or "soft" way that the name comes from. Just my humble opinion

I don't think Judo is dying as far as the art or maybe I should say the techniques. As far as the sport I can understand it's way to speacalized and by its nature is more likely to cause injury.

I also think there is something to be said for a school being run as a business. As much as some people hate on business and people making money, it's the concern for paying bills/making money the cause instructors to be more motivated to spread the word and treat people as if they matter. I spent some time with a Judo club, the price was cheap because it was inside of a ymca but the sport and cult like atmosphere totally turned me off. I still love the techniques and we have a Judo class within our school. I don't even mind some of the traditions like bowing in and out of class I actually find it a useful to define the start and end of the class but the bow to your sensei attitude uh I'll pass on that.
 
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I find more potential for judo to grow and shine in bjj or combat sambo than remains in judo due to the evolution of IJF rules.

I'd rather see Kodokan rules from pre 1925 with leglocks being fair game and everything being more free in general.

But I'm one of those crazies who thinks that modern judo + modern bjj = something closer to real judo.
 
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