Is Japan still top5 nation in MMA? Did Poland or Australia took the spot?

[pankrat]

Japan:
Okami
Horiguchi
Munoz
Aoki

 

[pankrat]

wow... helluva ranking... 4th UK( ok, I still value more Polish mma scene... it is simply stronger and brings more champion material)... and 5th japan ( ho the hell they are before Poland for example). Cocaine- Eric Clapton

Japan has a case to be above Poland - and UK - because has more top talent overall, even if it's mostly in the less popular lighest weighclasses, and because of a strong local circuit

 

[kirsky]

Japan has a case to be above Poland - and UK - because has more top talent overall, even if it's mostly in the less popular lighest weighclasses, and because of a strong local circuit

Japn is not top10 nation... and you put them in top5 ?... I agree with you that UK got more fighter in ufc then Poland... but you rate quantity over quality, I prefer quality over quantity. Cheers.

 

[pankrat]

Japn is not top10 nation... and you put them in top5 ?... I agree with you that UK got more fighter in ufc then Poland... but you rate quantity over quality, I prefer quality over quantity. Cheers.

Cheers mate but what's the point of stating "Japan is not top10 nation" with no argument to back it up whatsoever? It's a ridiculous statement.

Japan is easily top5, and very arguably #4, as it has been proved in this same thread.

Im talking about quality, not just quantity. If you just ignore the lighest weightclasses it's on you, but they are quality fighters.

 

[DoubleA012]

I think you could put Nigeria ahead of Japan. Current top Nigerian Fighters: Adesanya, Usman, Sodiq Yusuff, Kennedy Nzechukwu, Anthony Njokuani, Chidi Njokuani (born in America-Nigerian decent). With a population near 200 million people, I think that Nigeria could be on the verge of a big talent boom and at Adesanya & Usman are not only champions, but incredibly good.

 

[pankrat]

I think you could put Nigeria ahead of Japan. Current top Nigerian Fighters: Adesanya, Usman, Sodiq Yusuff, Kennedy Nzechukwu, Anthony Njokuani, Chidi Njokuani (born in America-Nigerian decent). With a population near 200 million people, I think that Nigeria could be on the verge of a big talent boom and at Adesanya & Usman are not only champions, but incredibly good.

Well, rather than flags we are talking about fighters who come out of the local pro circuit and gym networks of a particular country. I don't think Usman represents Nigeria in that regard, dont know about Israel he is broken native right

 

[pankrat]

Croatia is nothing special...got no clue what that guy is mentioning that country for. No way they are better than Japan. C.Republic is a stretch also, they have like two semi-relevant fighters, everyone else I can think of are just prospects and Japan has that ad nausuem.

What is more funny is that Croatia and Czech Republic are still dwarfing Giants like India and China who are not even present on the rankings, if not for the WMMA which is not a thing here.

I think it's just that you ended up with a bad example in Croatia really, they've never really had much of an MMA presence outside of a few good fighters.
.

For the record, Croatia has currently two champions in the strong Polish circuit: WW Soldic and BW Racic, preceedd by Reljic at LHW.
UK has Askram and Parke if im not mistaken.

 

[Hellowhosthat]

For the record, Croatia has currently two champions in the strong Polish circuit: WW Soldic and BW Racic, preceedd by Reljic at LHW.
UK has Askram and Parke if im not mistaken.

Parke isn't champ, but Phil De Fries is KSW HW champ.

 

[pankrat]

Parke isn't champ, but Phil De Fries is KSW HW champ.

Impressive run by De Fries lately. I writed him off after his loss to Shyrtkov but the streak his riding in KSW is legit af.
Do you think he has a chance of getting in the rankings if UFC signed him back?

 

[Hellowhosthat]

Impressive run by De Fries lately. I writed him off after his loss to Shyrtkov but the streak his riding in KSW is legit af.
Do you think he has a chance of getting in the rankings if UFC signed him back?

Probably not to be honest. Maybe in the 11-15 range, I think he lacks that little something (mainly athleticism) which would get him there.

He also isn't very exciting, so I'm not sure UFC would be overly interested.

 

[JacJeanFinger]

Are you sure about that ? To me RIZIN is a lot more stand and bang than the UFC.

The reason that RIZIN has less humping is because of the matchmaking. The UFC is closer to a sport because the matchmaking is less about exciting fights and more about rankings. Fact: RIZIN matchmaking is based towards striking.

The biggest two stars of RIZIN are RENA and Tenshin who are just kickboxers LOL !

By the way do you really enjoy modern grappling ? Many times I turn on the TV to watch RIZIN with my family and there are two midget 40 year old Japanese men humping each other, it makes me feel very akward because my family will doubt my heterosexuallity,

I enjoy grappling when it is not a gracie homosexual act.

The grappling i enjoy is Japanese/Russian grappling, like in the 90s in RINGS, with shoulderlocks used for control and interesting rolling and jumping techniques.

I do not enjoy Gracie homo grappling which is what all of grapping is in 2020, do you?

Octagon is definitely encouraging and giving advantages to strikers because of the size and shape of the fighting space that allow them to move around and outbox and easily get up on feet. If you remember how ishida outwrestled and outgrappled Melendez in the ring and got completely dominared while standing up in the rematch that took place in a cage, you should see my point. Kron had no choice but box with cub for the same reason.

Italians love boxing and we never see them in adcc. Whether they grew up in Europe or in America, they prefer their fights to be on feet. Pierini, white, and other macaroni executives have always had the same attitude toward their fighters and same thing to say. Knock the fuck out and get the prize. They won't tell you to protect yourself till submission opportunity knocks. Brutality = profitability, their tradition since the age of lion vs Christian.

> The grappling i enjoy is Japanese/Russian grappling

Good old days before Rorion decided to sell away his family business.

I like sambo and catch wrestling being applied to mma. I also like the way bustamante fought using superior bjj (judo) techniques. RINGS during the 90s was great, I agree.

> my family will doubt my heterosexuallit

what are you talking about? You used to date Oleg taklovski didn't you.

 

[JarlSkuld]

Japan is a very traditional place; change is resisted on almost every front. Change is only sought when it is perceived to be in line with "Japanese thinking". Early in MMA's history, being good in judo/karate/kempo/etc. translated well to MMA, so many Japanese fighters thrived. But the sport has evolved tremendously in 25 years, and the training methods in Japan haven't. Great MMA fighters now travel the world to train in different methods/camps and become well-rounded fighters. Japanese fighter prefer to stay in Japan and train only in Japan, generally. This wasn't such a hindrance 25 years ago. Now, it is. It is unlikely Japan will return to prominence in MMA.

But, Japanese are the ultimate fair-weather fans. They will follow any sport where a Japanese athlete is successful. Perhaps if there is an anomalous Japanese MMA star in the future, the fans and support will come back.

Jarl

 

[gono btw]

Japan is a very traditional place; change is resisted on almost every front. Change is only sought when it is perceived to be in line with "Japanese thinking". Early in MMA's history, being good in judo/karate/kempo/etc. translated well to MMA, so many Japanese fighters thrived. But the sport has evolved tremendously in 25 years, and the training methods in Japan haven't. Great MMA fighters now travel the world to train in different methods/camps and become well-rounded fighters. Japanese fighter prefer to stay in Japan and train only in Japan, generally. This wasn't such a hindrance 25 years ago. Now, it is. It is unlikely Japan will return to prominence in MMA.

But, Japanese are the ultimate fair-weather fans. They will follow any sport where a Japanese athlete is successful. Perhaps if there is an anomalous Japanese MMA star in the future, the fans and support will come back.

Jarl

Your assessment is pretty much inaccurate, mate...

In terrms of technical evolution, the 'resistance' to changes was not as you described it, since the 1990s.
Without even goin´way back [since it was not a NHB era] to Gotch, you only need to consider, for instance, the exchanges between Japz & Samboists during the Rings era: Aleksander Fedorov trained several Japz sent by Maeda.
He had his input in Yamamoto´s trainin´& strategy when he faced Hickson, for instance.

Outside Rings, competitors like Nakai or Yoshinori Nishi understood, through their defeat to Hickson, that it was time to change their trainin´methods & expand their skill set.

 

[JarlSkuld]

Your assessment is pretty much inaccurate, mate...

In terrms of technical evolution, the 'resistance' to changes was not as you described it, since the 1990s.
Without even goin´way back [since it was not a NHB era] to Gotch, you only need to consider, for instance, the exchanges between Japz & Samboists during the Rings era: Aleksander Fedorov trained several Japz sent by Maeda.
He had his input in Yamamoto´s trainin´& strategy when he faced Hickson, for instance.

Outside Rings, competitors like Nakai or Yoshinori Nishi understood, through their defeat to Hickson, that it was time to change their trainin´methods & expand their skill set.

How many Japanese fighters train outside of Japan now? How many "foreign" fighters/coaches are brought in to Japanese fight camps now? How many top ranked Japanese MMA fighters are there now compared to 20 years ago? Even your examples are isolated and ancient. Looking up a few names on Wikipedia has just proved my point. I live in Japan; I've lived and worked here for nearly 25 years. I'm bilingual and work at a company that has no other foreign employees. I understand Japanese culture "pretty well". My assessment of the fall-off of Japanese MMA is correct and accurate.

Jarl

 

[gono btw]

How many Japanese fighters train outside of Japan now? How many "foreign" fighters/coaches are brought in to Japanese fight camps now? How many top ranked Japanese MMA fighters are there now compared to 20 years ago? Even your examples are isolated and ancient. Looking up a few names on Wikipedia has just proved my point. I live in Japan; I've lived and worked here for nearly 25 years. I'm bilingual and work at a company that has no other foreign employees. I understand Japanese culture "pretty well". My assessment of the fall-off of Japanese MMA is correct and accurate.

Jarl

Well, I showed that your assessment is historically inaccurate.
That decline you´re talkin´about is much more complex than you´re tryin´to depict.

More examples:

> Sakakibara sent Kaneko to Chuteboxe b4 his transition to MMA

> SAKU G. went to Chuteboxe

> TK went to US & joined Frank & Maurice to form a modern team & expand his skill set.

> Hume trainin´several Japz [like Mach or Shoji]

> Inoki sent Fujita to King of the Streets.

> Here, Inoki sent Nagata to King of the Streets, b4 transitionin´to MMA:




It iz what it iz.

 

[mraa1]

I don't think so, even Korea surpassed them at this point but that's no surprise as there seems to be no big market for MMA in Japan anymore and they have young superstars in other combat sports like Tenshin in kickboxing and Inoue in boxing, the casual combat fan doesn't care or need to follow MMA there. I mean who was the last Japanese MMA megastar? Nobody ever surpassed Saku. They tried to push Akiyama but he was more of a dud tbh and I hear Japanese fans don't like him anyway because of his history of alleged cheating scandals in Judo and MMA. I always got the feeling he was more appreciated in Korea. But it's a catch-22; you're not going to see an influx of young, world beating talent until you see interest in MMA spike again but that spike will only come from....young, world beating talent

 

[Yosuke]

I don't think so, even Korea surpassed them at this point but that's no surprise as there seems to be no big market for MMA in Japan anymore and they have young superstars in other combat sports like Tenshin in kickboxing and Inoue in boxing, the casual combat fan doesn't care or need to follow MMA there. I mean who was the last Japanese MMA megastar? Nobody ever surpassed Saku. They tried to push Akiyama but he was more of a dud tbh and I hear Japanese fans don't like him anyway because of his history of alleged cheating scandals in Judo and MMA. I always got the feeling he was more appreciated in Korea. But it's a catch-22; you're not going to see an influx of young, world beating talent until you see interest in MMA spike again but that spike will only come from....young, world beating talent

How has Korea surpassed Japan in MMA? Japan is actually miles above Korea. Just my 2 cents though.

 

[pankrat]

I don't think so, even Korea surpassed them at this point but that's no surprise as there seems to be no big market for MMA in Japan anymore and they have young superstars in other combat sports like Tenshin in kickboxing and Inoue in boxing, the casual combat fan doesn't care or need to follow MMA there. I mean who was the last Japanese MMA megastar? Nobody ever surpassed Saku. They tried to push Akiyama but he was more of a dud tbh and I hear Japanese fans don't like him anyway because of his history of alleged cheating scandals in Judo and MMA. I always got the feeling he was more appreciated in Korea. But it's a catch-22; you're not going to see an influx of young, world beating talent until you see interest in MMA spike again but that spike will only come from....young, world beating talent

Japanese MMA obviously fell off since Pride but still, you say there is no MMA market but their local circuit (Rizin, Pancrase, Deep, Shooto, etc) is still waaay bigger than Korea's

ONE FC made the biggest event of their history in Tokio past year and plan to do more in upcoming years. They have Japanese contenders in almost every division. Not Koreans.

About popularity or "stars"... hard to measure that but anyways, Stun Gun Kim was a pretty big star in Korea with millions of followers in social media and TV shows.
Cool, but Okami was stlll the better fighter, and actually better ranked, with not even one thousand followers in Twitter.

Even Korean Zombie, who is far and away the best fighter Korea has ever produced, I don't think he is a better fighter than Kioji Horiguchi, who would also be an instant tittle contender if he came back to UFC

Apart from Korean Zombie, where are the top contender Koreans in any promotion in or out of UFC? You don't see them in Bellator, PFL ACA or ONE, and their local circuit is definitely not better than Japanese so where are they?

The Asakura bros are huge stars in Japan if I'm not mistaken btw

 

[lukeuidswords]

Korea has no fight culture

 

[lukeuidswords]

JMMA is in a far stronger position now than it was a decade ago, particularly on the women’s side

People can only view it through a UFC lens but this is a partial, warped, inaccurate view