Is Free Will an illusion?

[mesomorph]

It means we are incapable of knowing whether information is true or not. If we have no choice in what we accept to be true, then even false things can be accepted as true without being able to realize it. Logical deduction and reasoning are non existent since you need to be in control of what you are reasoning to come to a real conclusion.

No, that's just not true.

Your definition of free will is just really weird.

 

[5H3RD0G]

I believe it is to a certain extent. I think once we expand our knowledge correctly we will see our abilities and possibilities grow and expand exponentially................................until then.

 

[BJ@LW&WW]

If we had free will there wouldn't be toilets. Do people like taking shits? No. People HAVE to take shits. Therefore your life is, in some way, constrained by shitting. Don't shit, you'll explode.

Free will is just an illusion, you'll all continue to worship your porcelain gods like the little shitters you are.

i agree that free will doesn't truly exist, but giving an example of one involuntary action of the human body does not at all support any decent argument of that.

 

[BJ@LW&WW]

How do you figure? It still seems to me like I'm choosing one theory over the other. Moreover, one theory might even be more true than the other.

All we're saying is that the factors that led to the choosing of that option were set from the beginning. I'm still making the "choice" (insofar as that can be said) for the same reason, my judgement and inferences remain the same, but the entire circumstance was created by contingent factors that were ultimately not under my control.

Can something truly be more true than another truth?

 

[zackryder]

everything is predetermined with the illusion of freewill

if something happens in the universe than it is supposed to happen

 

[Rekrul]

LucasWithLidOff is making a good point that all you determinists are ignoring.

If there is no free will and we have no choice in what we believe in, then every theory we believe is right could be entirely wrong and we'd have no choice to believe it

If you had free will, and you chose to believe in something which was not correct, you would still be stuck believing something false. You would have to depend on external forces, to present new information suggesting that your prior belief was false.

In order for our beliefs to change, some sort of process has to take place, in which new information is evaluated, inferences, and deductions are made. The conclusions that we come to will depend on that process.

The unfolding of that process will be dependent on forces outside of our control. One's ability to perceive new information will be dependent on the quality of one's sense organs. One's ability to evaluate, infer, and deduce will depend on the quality of one's brain, and prior knowledge.

What if you find that there are multiple conclusions, which are equally plausible? How are you to decide which one you personally believe in? How are you to make arbitrary decisions, of any kind? You would require a bias.

So:

The initial stimulus to reconsider your beliefs is dependent the external, physical world.

The process through which you change your belief is dependent on the physical structure of your body, and prior interactions with the external, physical world.

The ultimate "choice" you make after processing the new information is determined by an innate bias.

Where does the free will happen? We're stuck with skepticism either way imo, for many reasons.

 

[Viva]

Free Will must exist.

How else do you explain teh internet?

 

[Tycho- Taylor's Version]

Can something truly be more true than another truth?

Good question, I should have been more careful with the language there.

Upon reflection I'd say that you can be closer to truth with one theory than another, but perhaps it would not then be more true using the typical definition.

 

[TriangleMan]

I believe in free will but it's hard to practice with all the legal reprocussions.
it's something that is had but easily taken away..

Civil rights vs civil liberties, in other words.

You simply need a plan.

Spoiler

HAHA yesssss

 

[akimbo187]

I was going to say, in b4 people start using stupidly big words, but I guess I am already too late for that. But anyways, I always think we have free will. Free will is the ability to think for yourself, it is very simple. In my opinion, 90% of the world population does not exercise free will, and are merely puppets. Free will can not be constrained, but in this world the idea of free will has so many constraints that it becomes more a set of regulations (i.e. you have free will as long as you adhere to these items) I think free will only extends to these points, but overall, everything is predetermined.

 

[LucasWithLidOff]

I was going to say, in b4 people start using stupidly big words, but I guess I am already too late for that. But anyways, I always think we have free will. Free will is the ability to think for yourself, it is very simple. In my opinion, 90% of the world population does not exercise free will, and are merely puppets. Free will can not be constrained, but in this world the idea of free will has so many constraints that it becomes more a set of regulations (i.e. you have free will as long as you adhere to these items) I think free will only extends to these points, but overall, everything is predetermined.

Don't bother. Common sense doesn't bode well in this thread.

 

[Tycho- Taylor's Version]

Don't bother. Common sense doesn't bode well in this thread.

You'll have to excuse those of us using an established philosophical definition of free will instead of the "deep conversations I have when I'm high" conception.

 

[mommas homeboy]

I believe everything that happens has a cause, and that which is caused to happen cannot not happen.

In other words, the world is unfolding as an immeasurably complex chain of causal events. That includes everything that a human or humans do. And when something is caused to happen, there is no way looking back on it to say that it coudn't have happened.

But none of that matters because it feels like we have free will, so who really cares.

 

[LucasWithLidOff]

You'll have to excuse those of us using an established philosophical definition of free will instead of the "deep conversations I have when I'm high" conception.

I don't even know what you are trying to imply here, but you'd have to be high to think people are slaves to fate. Most of us moved past that antiquated form of thinking during the enlightenment era. Those who didn't had a rough 20th century while Europe, USA, and Japan (later) industrialized.

As I said already, free will constrained within parameters is still free will. It's not an all or zero sum.

 

[Tycho- Taylor's Version]

I don't even know what you are trying to imply here, but you'd have to be high to think people are slaves to fate. Most of us moved past that antiquated form of thinking during the enlightenment era. Those who didn't had a rough 20th century while Europe, USA, and Japan (later) industrialized.

As I said already, free will constrained within parameters is still free will. It's not an all or zero sum.

I think you're confusing metaphysical free will with a more political conception of freedom.

 

[LucasWithLidOff]

I think you're confusing metaphysical free will with a more political conception of freedom.

Not really. For instance, it's determined that you will die, but how you spend your life is mostly up to you. Where you end up by the time you do die is very much under your control by the choices you made with the hand you were dealt.

Some may even say that where you are born is determined, and I'd give them that even though I lean toward that being the result of other people's conscious choices.

 

[LucasWithLidOff]

Although to address your point, indoctrinating people into a lack of metaphysical free will makes it a lot easier to take away political free will. See castes, divine right, etc...

 

[Rekrul]

Not really. For instance, it's determined that you will die, but how you spend your life is mostly up to you. Where you end up by the time you do die is very much under your control by the choices you made with the hand you were dealt.

Some may even say that where you are born is determined, and I'd give them that even though I lean toward that being the result of other people's conscious choices.

How does your conception of free will work?

 

[LucasWithLidOff]

How does your conception of free will work?

Mostly Socratic. The ability to make choices within constraints. But I take it a little bit further because I've found that by changing my thinking I can also change my attitude, in spite of my circumstances.

 

[Tycho- Taylor's Version]

Although to address your point, indoctrinating people into a lack of metaphysical free will makes it a lot easier to take away political free will. See castes, divine right, etc...

It's hardly an indoctrination. A bold choice of words considering the evidence for your claim comes down to a strong intuition, which is (mostly) accounted for by the opposing explanation.

But I do understand that free will is still justified to some extent at the top level of conversation as well, so if you want to be a little more thorough maybe I could be swayed.