Is Cowboy the greatest fighter EVER.....to never win a title?

He should have got the win in the first Henderson fight
 
I applaud him for staying in there and hardly bitching out from an injury.

That said, Benson is going to be 3-0.
 
Doug22 said:
:eek:
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i see why you might have that initial reaction but you have to keep in mind that there are stages of Sonnen's career like there are stages of Anderson's.

Nobody counts Anderson's losses in japan because he was young and hadn't truly hit his stride yet.

In that same effect, pretty much every one of Sonnen's losses prior to filho were before he got his stride, then he went 1-1 with filho (dominated the 1st fight until getting caught, then dominated the 2nd fight and was cheated out of his belt by filho not making weight)

than he lost to maia, that's his worst loss by far. no excuses. Then he went on an epic run against miller, nate, okami, and came within 2 minutes of the most one sided beat down ever against Anderson f'n Silva...

then from there on he only loses again to silva, and to a couple of LHW's he shouldn't have been fighting in the first place.

and yet still... tapped shogun
 
Cowboy's cool and all, but I wouldn't go that far. At the top of my head, and this is just guys that are currently active, Benavidez, Dodson and Cormier (unless you consider the tourny win a "title") are better
 
Natman2939 said:
i see why you might have that initial reaction but you have to keep in mind that there are stages of Sonnen's career like there are stages of Anderson's.

Nobody counts Anderson's losses in japan because he was young and hadn't truly hit his stride yet.

In that same effect, pretty much every one of Sonnen's losses prior to filho were before he got his stride, then he went 1-1 with filho (dominated the 1st fight until getting caught, then dominated the 2nd fight and was cheated out of his belt by filho not making weight)

than he lost to maia, that's his worst loss by far. no excuses. Then he went on an epic run against miller, nate, okami, and came within 2 minutes of the most one sided beat down ever against Anderson f'n Silva...

then from there on he only loses again to silva, and to a couple of LHW's he shouldn't have been fighting in the first place.

and yet still... tapped shogun
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You mean the Filho fight when Sonnen tapped out, then tried to lie about it? As if the fight wasn't being filmed and the producers weren't capable of showing instant replay?

And the Silva fight when he tested positive for elevated testosterone levels?

Dude's a liar and a cheat and MMA is better without him.

Also, I think the best fighters to never win a title are going to be flyweights, featherweights, and women's bantamweights just because Alodo, DJ, and Rousey have a stranglehold on those divisions.
 
Great question.

The guy who said Benavidez was on the right track. Very surprised no one has mentioned Chad Mendes, who would be my first pick. Has looked completely dominant against everyone not named Jose Aldo, and Aldo himself has said he believes Mendes would beat Edgar, Lamas, and the rest of the featherweights.

He just happens to be stuck in a division with the greatest fighter ever under 170 lbs.
 
Doug22 said:
If you believe Bobby Green's unsubstantiated comments that is. Even if what Green said was true it would just make Cerrone the white Rampage.
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I actually forgot about those comments.
 
He's a good fighter but extremely over rated here. You have people claiming so and so was exposed or over rated even though they are current or former champions and Cerrone is neither of those yet people act like he's an all time great. He's likable but that's it. Not anywhere near all time LW GOATs with guys like:

Penn
Benson
Pettis
Edgar
Go I
Sakurai and many more who have both been champions and who have not.

I know this thread is about the GOAT without a belt but I disagree.
 
BigDaddyBach said:
IMHO, Cowboy is top 5 LW's of all time. Sadly, fight fans absolutely brutalize and trash fighters who fight for our entertainment rain or shine, take fights that they have a good chance of losing and take fights when they aren't at 100%. Look at BJ, Hendo, Saku etc...these fighters fought for our entertainment, are true warriors, would take any fight any time, fought way out of their weight class and lived/died by the sword. Strangely, most fair weather fight fans consider the three aforementioned fighters close to cans because the MMA fan's mind has very little abilty to see past the fighter's most recent fights or most embarrassing losses.

Strangely, Aldo and GSP only took fights against opponents that they had a 0.000001% chance of losing to, started fighting safe when they won the belt, frequently pulled out of bouts, fought very infrequently and somehow, someway, they are absolutely adored by fans. MMA fans = P4P shittiest, most immature and un-loyal fans in all of sports. They want their cake and want to eat it too and I think it's high time that a guy like Cowboy gets due respect.
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lol what the fuck are you talking about?

Very few people bash BJ, Hendo or Saku on here. The vast, vast majority consider them the legends they are. Sure, BJ has some haters, as does Hendo, because every great fighter has haters. Although I can't say I remember much hate for Saku. And no one calls them cans.

And who did GSP and Aldo avoid fighting? They've both fought the very best their weight class has to offer. You really think that Mendes had no shot against Aldo? Shields (who beat Hendo) had no chance against GSP?

There are so many posters like you on here. Guys who have a hard on for the "Glory days" and are unnecessarily pessimistic about modern MMA. Yes, the old fighters were great... so are many of the new ones. Get your head out of the clouds, come down with the rest of us and enjoy the great fights.

Natman2939 said:
Honestly?

Because I struggle to respect fighters that care more about pleasing the fans than winning.

It just hurts my brain. I'm NOT saying every fighter should be some boring l'n'p guy but for fucks sakes you can be exciting and intelligent at the same time.

With enough talent, you can take multiple fights a year and just be smart about how you fight, instead of insisting on slugmatches just cause you want to appease the crowd.

About the maddest I've ever been at a fighter was when Matt Serra said after the 2nd Lytle fight "I could've won if I took it to the ground but I wanted to give the fans a show so I kept it standing"

That is BULLSHIT.. this is a sport, you're supposed to win. Don't throw away a win to "please the fans" that just makes you an idiot, and then blaming your loss on your own bad decisions makes you look like both an idiot and a sore loser.

And to answer the quoted question: I sense the same issue with Cerrone. Trying too damn hard to please the crowd. Man may have actually gotten a title shot by now if he just fought with a little more strategy
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I somewhat agree with you... but I don't think Cerrone fits in to that mold.

I can't stand guys like Jorge Gurgel, grapplers who brawl to please the fans. But fuck it, it's their choice to do so. If they want to take the concussions and the losses, it's on them.

Cerrone however, doesn't brawl to please the fans, it just so happens that his best way to victory happens to be a crowd pleasing one. The best shot Cerrone has to win, against anyone not named Pettis, is to strike with them. He's got a LOT of subs on his record, but most of them came after he hurt his opponent on the feet. And it's not like he's completely averse to the ground game. In fact, his fight with Jury is a perfect example. They went to the ground and stayed there. Once Cowboy got his back, he kept it and went for RNC's because he didn't want to give up the position, it was only at the very end of the round that he went for the armbar. That's fighting strategically, not to please the crowd.

Cerrone's problem hasn't been so much a failing of strategy, but a failing in the mental game. The pressure gets to him, which obviously ends up affecting his strategy (like in the Diaz fight... throw some fucking legs kicks Cerrone, you're fighting a Diaz brother!). But poor strategy is more a symptom for Cerrone, not the problem itself, if that makes any sense.


And to TS' point, I think he could be the best fighter to never get a belt. Or at least he belongs in the conversation. If not in terms of record, then certainly in terms of skill set. His record is good, but he has a history of crumbling in big moments. But when he's on, he brings a lethal combo of striking at distance, clinch work and a very dangerous, sub orientated ground game. His offensive wrestling is good and his TDD is very good.

The one thing that's held him back is the mental game... and unfortunately a great mental game is a must have to be a champ in modern MMA.

He's also very, very high up on the list of most exciting fighters of all time.
 
I'd think Mirko 'Cro Cop' would be a good name to toss in the never won a title (in MMA) conversation, as would Sakuraba (but he's more a victim of his time).
 
Lol not even close. Shit just look at his own division. Rda and khabib are both much better than him and have no titles. Cowboy has never been more than a fringe top 5 fighter
 
Cerrone wasn't hurt during the Diaz fight. He just got tooled and had a weird gameplan.

He's a pretty damn good and entertaining fighter, no sense in embellishing things and pretending like he is the best ever >.>
 
Cro Cop. Most don't consider the GP win to be a 'real' title. He was never the champ of a division.
 
McSpikes said:
Cerrone wasn't hurt during the Diaz fight. He just got tooled and had a weird gameplan.

He's a pretty damn good and entertaining fighter, no sense in embellishing things and pretending like he is the best ever >.>
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I think he was referring to Cowboys excuse about his horse busting his lip the week of the fight. But it's still a bullshit excuse. Busted lip or not he fought dumb and Nate picked him apart.
 
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