Is Anthony Joshua the worst of the best?

That's really poor logic. It would make even less sense to have a full-blown meltdown and Team AJ not mention that they felt the decision was controversial.
Guys get emotional after a loss, especially if they feel they got robbed. But AJ regained his composure and showed grace in defeat (it's what the judges decided) afterward. "grace in defeat" is obviously not a concept you're familiar with.
As for Loma facing a grizzled vet in Salido so early, it's cherry picking for a 1-0 professional to fight a world champion in only his second pro fight? Absurd. Not to mention that if Salido felt that he had Loma's number then he would've given him a rematch. His own manager Sean Gibbons even said that he didn't understand why he didn't take the rematch because the money they asked for was presented to them by Top Rank.
c'mon dude, we're talking orlando salido here. It didn't matter that he was a world title contender. he was still the same orlando salido who was dominated by gamboa and garcia. besides, salido was considered over the hill by that point. and the promoters were basically touting loma as world championship level pro fighter even before his first pro fight. That was why loma fought Ramirez, a guy with a 25-3 record, and a title contender, in loma's FIRST pro fight. If "pro experience" mattered that much you really think they woulda matched loma with Ramirez in Loma's FIRST pro fight?

of course not. The promoters and everybody in boxing knows that the eastern european "amateurs" were actually "professionals" because boxing is how they made their living. They were just simply professionals who fought three round bouts in elimination tournaments instead of pros who fought 10 rounders against random dudes. for that reason, the eastern european amateurs were often more experienced and more battle-tested than a lot of top pro fighters. so, for eastern europeans boxers at that level, going from amateur to pro was NOT a big transition.

It was a calculated matchmaking strategy to fight salido in loma's second pro fight. to the eye, it looked like salido was made to order. otherwise, there was no reason to rush loma into a title fight at age 26 if there was doubt he could win. the problem was, they miscalculated. i think of salido the same way i think of guys like emmanuel navarette, emanuel agustus and carlos maussa, fighters who are so awkward and unorthodox, although they look like they have a ton of flaws and should be easy for a classically trained boxer to beat, but those guys have all kinds of weird angles and physicality and rhythm and shit about them that they can be a nightmare for even an experienced pro; ask robson conceicao, isaac dogboe, vivian harris, etc.

That's not what joshua had with usyk. usyk is what floyd would call a "straight up and down, no special effects" kinda guy. the thing is joshua's lack of amateur background ill-prepared him for usyk's movement and left-handed counterpunching. that is something that could have been fixed with more exposure to different styles of fighters during joshua's developmental (amateur) stage.
 
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Guys get emotional after a loss, especially if they feel they got robbed. But AJ regained his composure and showed grace in defeat (it's what the judges decided) afterward. "grace in defeat" is obviously not a concept you're familiar with.

c'mon dude, we're talking orlando salido here. It didn't matter that he was a world title contender. he was still the same orlando salido who was dominated by gamboa and garcia. besides, salido was considered over the hill by that point. and the promoters were basically touting loma as world championship level pro fighter even before his first pro fight. That was why loma fought Ramirez, a guy with a 25-3 record, and a title contender, in loma's FIRST pro fight. If "pro experience" mattered that much you really think they woulda matched loma with Ramirez in Loma's FIRST pro fight?

of course not. The promoters and everybody in boxing knows that the eastern european "amateurs" were actually "professionals" because boxing is how they made their living. They were just simply professionals who fought three round bouts in elimination tournaments instead of pros who fought 10 rounders against random dudes. for that reason, the eastern european amateurs were often more experienced and more battle-tested than a lot of top pro fighters. so, for eastern europeans boxers at that level, going from amateur to pro was NOT a big transition.

It was a calculated matchmaking strategy to fight salido in loma's second pro fight. to the eye, it looked like salido was made to order. otherwise, there was no reason to rush loma into a title fight at age 26 if there was doubt he could win. the problem was, they miscalculated. i think of salido the same way i think of guys like emmanuel navarette, emanuel agustus and carlos maussa, fighters who are so awkward and unorthodox, although they look like they have a ton of flaws and should be easy for a classically trained boxer to beat, but those guys have all kinds of weird angles and physicality and rhythm and shit about them that they can be a nightmare for even an experienced pro; ask robson conceicao, isaac dogboe, vivian harris, etc.

That's not what joshua had with usyk. usyk is what floyd would call a "straight up and down, no special effects" kinda guy. the thing is joshua's lack of amateur background ill-prepared him for usyk's movement and left-handed counterpunching. that is something that could have been fixed with more exposure to different styles of fighters during joshua's developmental (amateur) stage.
You don't actually think that AJ showed grace in defeat after those antics? Tossing Usyk's belts out of the ring, storming out of it, only to return and then go on a long rant. Yeah, that's classy stuff. I forgave him for it but let's be real. It was a bad look for him at the time.

Salido was dominated by Mikey and Gamboa? Actually, if I recall Salido dropped Gamboa and essentially made Mikey quit after headbutting his nose in. The ref gave him an out and he took it.

Floyd wouldn't call Usyk "straight up and down, no special effects". He said that about Golovkin once upon a time but that was many years ago. But, if you really think he'd label Usyk as that, then surely you can explain how Usyk beating AJ in the first fight wasn't an upset? According to Floyd it wasn't. He expected it to happen because he thinks Usyk is "a helluva fighter".

 
Yes. Even against Dubois, at this stage, he was making amatuerish mistakes of leaning straight back. He doesn't have good movement and he has a terrible chin.
 
You don't actually think that AJ showed grace in defeat after those antics? Tossing Usyk's belts out of the ring, storming out of it, only to return and then go on a long rant. Yeah, that's classy stuff. I forgave him for it but let's be real. It was a bad look for him at the time.

Salido was dominated by Mikey and Gamboa? Actually, if I recall Salido dropped Gamboa and essentially made Mikey quit after headbutting his nose in. The ref gave him an out and he took it.

Floyd wouldn't call Usyk "straight up and down, no special effects". He said that about Golovkin once upon a time but that was many years ago. But, if you really think he'd label Usyk as that, then surely you can explain how Usyk beating AJ in the first fight wasn't an upset? According to Floyd it wasn't. He expected it to happen because he thinks Usyk is "a helluva fighter".



I totally agree, AJ acted the total bell after that fight, if Fury had done it he'd have been crucified on this page, you can't be dumping belts on the floor because you lost a decision. AJ done a few bellend things, the fucking rant outside them shops that time was a bit loose (not boxing related), but it goes with boxing though largely, ego is a huge part of the game, some fighters are dynamite in the gym, but without that ego they don't do well under the lights.
Usyk is just generational really, we'll appreciate him even more when he's gone.
 
That's not what joshua had with usyk. usyk is what floyd would call a "straight up and down, no special effects" kinda guy. the thing is joshua's lack of amateur background ill-prepared him for usyk's movement and left-handed counterpunching. that is something that could have been fixed with more exposure to different styles of fighters during joshua's developmental (amateur) stage.
I feel chatbot in learning phase here. Not human.
You might post that A.J didn't had experience in am boxing despite he does have olympic Gold medal.
 
You don't actually think that AJ showed grace in defeat after those antics? Tossing Usyk's belts out of the ring, storming out of it, only to return and then go on a long rant. Yeah, that's classy stuff. I forgave him for it but let's be real. It was a bad look for him at the time.
As I said, in the rematch, AJ was INITIALLY emotional after the decision was announced because he felt he deserved the decision had been robbed. How many times do i have to explain that before you understand? When a fighter thinks they been robbed, especially in the biggest fight of their career they get emotional. That is completely understandable. I seen guys do much worse: physically attack referees. Threaten to sue commissions. hold grudges for years. But AJ eventually regained his composure and congratulated usyk for the win. That turnaround shows he was able to overcome his emotional response and demonstrate good sportsmanship.
Salido was dominated by Mikey and Gamboa? Actually, if I recall Salido dropped Gamboa and essentially made Mikey quit after headbutting his nose in. The ref gave him an out and he took it.
Dude, you love to push the envelope, huh? gamboa ran rings around salido, beat him up dropped him three times. yes, gamboa also got dropped, but that was a feature of gamboa's style back then, being reckless. the bottomline was except for the 8th round, gamboa dominated.

Mikey garcia dropped salido four times before the headbutt forced the stoppage.

You're tryna make like salido was not a clear cherry pick for loma when anybody could see all his flaws and exactly why loma's corner would select a guy like salido for a sharpshooter with movement like lomachenko.



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Floyd wouldn't call Usyk "straight up and down, no special effects". He said that about Golovkin once upon a time but that was many years ago. But, if you really think he'd label Usyk as that, then surely you can explain how Usyk beating AJ in the first fight wasn't an upset? According to Floyd it wasn't. He expected it to happen because he thinks Usyk is "a helluva fighter".
I didn't say floyd called usyk "straight up and down no special effects." I'm saying usyk is the KIND of fighter, floyd would say that about.

Sorry, but floyd called everybody a helluva fighter... to the point it really didn't mean anything. he gave usyk a good chance of winning because he knew, like anybody who was paying attention knew, that joshua was a limited fighter. I mean, c'mon. getting blown out by andy ruiz?

to be honest, i also picked usyk to beat joshua because i could see that any above average hw contender (post prime wlad, joseph parker, carlos takam, ruiz) would give joshua fits. usyk is pretty good, not small for a HW, with a ton of amateur experience and he's a left hander. he had also been brought along slow but steady at hw. i had joshua as the underdog going into the first fight.
 
As I said, in the rematch, AJ was INITIALLY emotional after the decision was announced because he felt he deserved the decision had been robbed. How many times do i have to explain that before you understand? When a fighter thinks they been robbed, especially in the biggest fight of their career they get emotional. That is completely understandable. I seen guys do much worse: physically attack referees. Threaten to sue commissions. hold grudges for years. But AJ eventually regained his composure and congratulated usyk for the win. That turnaround shows he was able to overcome his emotional response and demonstrate good sportsmanship.

Dude, you love to push the envelope, huh? gamboa ran rings around salido, beat him up dropped him three times. yes, gamboa also got dropped, but that was a feature of gamboa's style back then, being reckless. the bottomline was except for the 8th round, gamboa dominated.

Mikey garcia dropped salido four times before the headbutt forced the stoppage.

You're tryna make like salido was not a clear cherry pick for loma when anybody could see all his flaws and exactly why loma's corner would select a guy like salido for a sharpshooter with movement like lomachenko.



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I didn't say floyd called usyk "straight up and down no special effects." I'm saying usyk is the KIND of fighter, floyd would say that about.

Sorry, but floyd called everybody a helluva fighter... to the point it really didn't mean anything. he gave usyk a good chance of winning because he knew, like anybody who was paying attention knew, that joshua was a limited fighter. I mean, c'mon. getting blown out by andy ruiz?

to be honest, i also picked usyk to beat joshua because i could see that any above average hw contender (post prime wlad, joseph parker, carlos takam, ruiz) would give joshua fits. usyk is pretty good, not small for a HW, with a ton of amateur experience and he's a left hander. he had also been brought along slow but steady at hw. i had joshua as the underdog going into the first fight.

No, AJ has never said that he felt he deserved the decision in either Usyk fight as far as I'm aware. If you disagree then post a quote or timestamp a video of him that says otherwise. You're desperately trying to spin AJ's cringe post-fight behavior like it's a positive for him which is quite comical. Gamboa beat Salido but he still had to face some adversity in that fight. As for Mikey he chose not to continue when he could have as soon as Salido started getting rough with him. He was publicly criticized for it afterwards by the media and fans.

You assume way too much. Floyd has never said anything negative about Usyk to my knowledge. Do you even know what "Straight up and down, no special effects" means? The first part literally refers to a fighter's entries & exits being done in a straight line. The second part means they only have a limited number of tricks in their bag (they're not very crafty). None of that stuff applies to Usyk. He's known for his angling, which is the complete opposite of "straight up and down," and being highly crafty with a deep bag of tricks and southpaw tactics at his disposal.

You picked Usyk to beat Joshua in the first fight? Haha. Yeah, right. Practically nobody picked Usyk to pull the upset. He was a big underdog and supposed to get KO'd. Feel free to pull up the odds. Then you say that Usyk isn't small for a heavyweight? That's categorically false. By today's standards he absolutely is small. Apparently you don't realize that the average height for a modern day top heavy is 6'5 and the average weight is 250 lbs. Fury and Joshua visibly dwarfed him in the ring.
 
No, AJ has never said that he felt he deserved the decision in either Usyk fight as far as I'm aware. If you disagree then post a quote or timestamp a video of him that says otherwise. You're desperately trying to spin AJ's cringe post-fight behavior like it's a positive for him which is quite comical. Gamboa beat Salido but he still had to face some adversity in that fight. As for Mikey he chose not to continue when he could have as soon as Salido started getting rough with him. He was publicly criticized for it afterwards by the media and fans.
AJ pitched a fit because he was upset at the decision which he thought he deserved and was robbed of.
You assume way too much. Floyd has never said anything negative about Usyk to my knowledge. Do you even know what "Straight up and down, no special effects" means? The first part literally refers to a fighter's entries & exits being done in a straight line. The second part means they only have a limited number of tricks in their bag (they're not very crafty). None of that stuff applies to Usyk. He's known for his angling, which is the complete opposite of "straight up and down," and being highly crafty with a deep bag of tricks and southpaw tactics at his disposal.
Still usyk got ko'd by a very basic daniel dubois. That's what "straight up and down no special effects means." He's so not special he could conceivably get ko'd by a second-rater. Luckily for usyk, the fight was in poland and they saved his ass. If it had been in the US with fair officials it goes down as ko loss.

Salido was picked because he was tailor made for lomachenko and he was supposed be a sitting duck just like he was for gamboa and mikey. he beat loma and exposed loma as being overrated.
You picked Usyk to beat Joshua in the first fight? Haha. Yeah, right. Practically nobody picked Usyk to pull the upset. He was a big underdog and supposed to get KO'd. Feel free to pull up the odds. Then you say that Usyk isn't small for a heavyweight? That's categorically false. By today's standards he absolutely is small. Apparently you don't realize that the average height for a modern day top heavy is 6'5 and the average weight is 250 lbs. Fury and Joshua visibly dwarfed him in the ring.
here is the AI answer proving you wrong again (for like the 8th time). of course you're gonna say the AI was wrong because it doesn't fit your narrative.


"For the first Usyk vs. Joshua fight, Oleksandr Usyk was generally the betting favorite, with odds typically around -200 to -275, while Anthony Joshua was the underdog with odds ranging from +170 to +275, according to sportsbooks. This means a bettor would need to risk more money to win a smaller amount on Usyk, while a bet on Joshua would yield a larger profit if he won, but had a lower probability of happening."
 
AJ pitched a fit because he was upset at the decision which he thought he deserved and was robbed of.

Still usyk got ko'd by a very basic daniel dubois. That's what "straight up and down no special effects means." He's so not special he could conceivably get ko'd by a second-rater. Luckily for usyk, the fight was in poland and they saved his ass. If it had been in the US with fair officials it goes down as ko loss.

Salido was picked because he was tailor made for lomachenko and he was supposed be a sitting duck just like he was for gamboa and mikey. he beat loma and exposed loma as being overrated.

here is the AI answer proving you wrong again (for like the 8th time). of course you're gonna say the AI was wrong because it doesn't fit your narrative.


"For the first Usyk vs. Joshua fight, Oleksandr Usyk was generally the betting favorite, with odds typically around -200 to -275, while Anthony Joshua was the underdog with odds ranging from +170 to +275, according to sportsbooks. This means a bettor would need to risk more money to win a smaller amount on Usyk, while a bet on Joshua would yield a larger profit if he won, but had a lower probability of happening."
Joshua never complained about either of the Usyk decision losses he suffered. Again, I asked you for a quote from AJ himself or a video clip that's been timestamped of him contesting the decision(s). Still waiting.

No, AJ was the clear favorite going into the first fight and your own source agrees with me. Imagine thinking that a cruiserweight who had just looked ordinary against Chisora would be favored over AJ.
Betting-Odds.png
 
Joshua never complained about either of the Usyk decision losses he suffered. Again, I asked you for a quote from AJ himself or a video clip that's been timestamped of him contesting the decision(s). Still waiting.

No, AJ was the clear favorite going into the first fight and your own source agrees with me. Imagine thinking that a cruiserweight who had just looked ordinary against Chisora would be favored over AJ.
Betting-Odds.png
LMAO! fudging with the query, huh? Dude, I didn't ask you about Action Network and CBS sports odds. i asked you about the GENERAL betting favorite. I don't bet using any of those platforms. And clearly, the AI shows that Usyk was the GENERAL betting favorite as it shows in my query. Dude, just be a man and admit you're wrong.

BTW, I also bet on ruiz to beat joshua. That's how low my esteem is for AJ.

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So your own AI says you're wrong. No surprise. Let's look a little bit closer at the odds history. The one on the bottom was their first fight. Usyk was clearly the underdog. Going into the rematch he was the favorite because he'd just beaten Joshua decisively.

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Source: www.proboxingodds.com/fighters/Anthony-Joshua-193
This is pure comedy. Why would I use some random website to prove a point when I have AI that can do a 10 times better job.

Get with the program, fuddyduddy.
 
LMAO! fudging with the query, huh? Dude, I didn't ask you about Action Network and CBS sports odds. i asked you about the GENERAL betting favorite. I don't bet using any of those platforms. And clearly, the AI shows that Usyk was the GENERAL betting favorite as it shows in my query. Dude, just be a man and admit you're wrong.

BTW, I also bet on ruiz to beat joshua. That's how low my esteem is for AJ.

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Nope. I've already posted all of the major bookies' odds in the other thread I'm schooling you in now. Try again.
 
Nope. I've already posted all of the major bookies' odds in the other thread I'm schooling you in now. Try again.
YOU are schooling ME!? dude gtfoh with your delusional a88. you don't know what the hell you're talking about half the time. you couldn't think your way out of a paperbag. I already provided you the AI summary. that shows usyk was the favorite on both sites. get out of your lil fantasyworld and face reality.

As an aside, In this day and age, it's stupid NOT to use AI to back up your point in a discussion.

If you're stll relying on some random website some random dude created under the pretense that he's an "expert" or "authority" you're way behind the times and you're out of step.

Yes, change is hard and uncomfortable for people stuck in their ways. But that's no excuse for putting out incorrect information. And when the AI search engine shows you that your perceptions were wrong, you should just say 'thank you for correcting me" and move on instead of insisting the bad information from flawed websites are correct and it's the AI that's wrong.

i can't wait for AI to get to the point where it can score a boxing match so we can get rid of poser "fans" like you.
 
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YOU are schooling ME!? dude gtfoh with your delusional a88. you don't know what the hell you're talking about half the time. you couldn't think your way out of a paperbag. I already provided you the AI summary. that shows usyk was the favorite on both sites. get out of your lil fantasyworld and face reality.

As an aside, In this day and age, it's stupid NOT to use AI to back up your point in a discussion.

If you're stll relying on some random website some random dude created under the pretense that he's an "expert" or "authority" you're way behind the times and you're out of step.

Yes, change is hard and uncomfortable for people stuck in their ways. But that's no excuse for putting out incorrect information. And when the AI search engine shows you that your perceptions were wrong, you should just say 'thank you for correcting me" and move on instead of insisting the bad information from flawed websites are correct and it's the AI that's wrong.

i can't wait for AI to get to the point where it can score a boxing match so we can get rid of poser "fans" like you.
It's not difficult to prove just how dumb your logic is even if you'd like to dismiss the real odds I posted. For one, Usyk was only 2-0 as a heavyweight when he fought Joshua and one of those wins was completely worthless (Witherspoon). The other win was over Chisora who everyone has beaten and he struggled in that fight. It was clear that he was still acclimating to heavyweight. So, no, Usyk was certainly NOT the favorite to beat AJ. AJ is a natural heavyweight that had been unified champ for years. At the time he was arguably the best heavyweight in the world. Only Fury could've been rated above him back then. You make me laugh, ClownBiz.
 
It's not difficult to prove just how dumb your logic is even if you'd like to dismiss the real odds I posted. For one, Usyk was only 2-0 as a heavyweight when he fought Joshua and one of those wins was completely worthless (Witherspoon). The other win was over Chisora who everyone has beaten and he struggled in that fight. It was clear that he was still acclimating to heavyweight. So, no, Usyk was certainly NOT the favorite to beat AJ. AJ is a natural heavyweight that had been unified champ for years. At the time he was arguably the best heavyweight in the world. Only Fury could've been rated above him back then. You make me laugh, ClownBiz.
none of that matters. the fact is usyk was the favorite over AJ in the first fight, and i'll tell you why: AJ got flattened by ruiz, a short, fat dude. end of story. he had been exposed. it doesn't matter than AJ danced his way to an unimpressive win in the rematch. in fact, that rematch over ruiz was due more to ruiz' underperformance than any improvement AJ showed. AJ fought scared....because that's not his natural style. he's a come forward power puncher. but he was scared to engage a short, fat dude because that dude had already laid him out. you don't think people see these things? yes, usyk looked ordinary against chisora and the other dude. but ruiz already proved that even an ordinary guy could beat AJ. so, it would make perfect sense that usyk would be the favorite.
 
none of that matters. the fact is usyk was the favorite over AJ in the first fight, and i'll tell you why: AJ got flattened by ruiz, a short, fat dude. end of story. he had been exposed. it doesn't matter than AJ danced his way to an unimpressive win in the rematch. in fact, that rematch over ruiz was due more to ruiz' underperformance than any improvement AJ showed. AJ fought scared....because that's not his natural style. he's a come forward power puncher. but he was scared to engage a short, fat dude because that dude had already laid him out. you don't think people see these things? yes, usyk looked ordinary against chisora and the other dude. but ruiz already proved that even an ordinary guy could beat AJ. so, it would make perfect sense that usyk would be the favorite.
No, Usyk wasn't the consensus favorite as I've already decisively proven. Only a single major sportsbook had Usyk briefly installed as the favorite and that was FanDuel. Notice that I'm giving you specifics here. BetMGM, DraftKings, Caesars, BetWay, BetRivers, Bet365, Unibet, PointsBet, etc all had AJ as the clear favorite when their lines opened and closed. Usyk was the underdog against AJ in the first fight and he was also a slight underdog against Fury in the first fight. He's beaten the odds more than once. Usyk was the dark horse of the division when he moved up to heavyweight. It's funny that you're trying to argue otherwise.
 
No, Usyk wasn't the consensus favorite as I've already decisively proven.
So, once again, even though the AI summary i provided CLEARLY says "For the first Usyk vs. Joshua fight, Oleksandr Usyk was generally the betting favorite" you are going to disagree with the AI summary and provide your OWN summary to disprove AI by providing a buncha random betting sites.

I hope all your friends on this forum are watching and taking notes because this is what mental illness looks like, and they need to help you out if they're really your friends.

Basically, your very worldview has been shattered and you can't reconcile it, so you gotta make shit up to cope.

i sincerely hope you find your way, fella.
 
So, once again, even though the AI summary i provided CLEARLY says "For the first Usyk vs. Joshua fight, Oleksandr Usyk was generally the betting favorite" you are going to disagree with the AI summary and provide your OWN summary to disprove AI by providing a buncha random betting sites.

I hope all your friends on this forum are watching and taking notes because this is what mental illness looks like, and they need to help you out if they're really your friends.

Basically, your very worldview has been shattered and you can't reconcile it, so you gotta make shit up to cope.

i sincerely hope you find your way, fella.
LOL at this shit. Bud, I've already provided the exact odds from essentially every major sportsbook. Your AI summary is wrong. It's already contradicted itself and mixed up its facts (see below).
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