Is Anthony Joshua the worst of the best?

[Mujeriego]

Something is telling me that he maybe is Spacetime, ofc improved during long years....

Especially interesting is that even (!) pro level headgears for motosport are sold with ofc bla bla bla , might reduce ( N.B reduce not prevent ) risk to get soft tissue and facial bones etc damage bla bla bla ...however no one serious seller is claiming that they prevent concussions.

If someonevin reality had even just a bit interest about boxing or motosport, most likely had spent some 5+ minutes to start research topic rather than years in forums.

Maybe he is different guy but clearly had read Spacetime and it's clones posts a lot.

Spacetime is @Intermission

 

[brundlefly]

Heavyweight has always been and always will be the marquee division. It's a top-down sport not bottom-up. No other weight class is as historically rich, popular, or financially lucrative. Just FYI no male American boxer has won Olympic gold in any division since 2004 (Andre Ward). You can't just point the finger at heavyweight in the pros. Where do you think the talent comes from? Most of it starts in the amateurs which is typically where a fighter's foundation is formed. Also, Fury vs Ngannou wasn't 12 rounds it was a 10 round non-championship fight that Fury clearly didn't train for.

OK, a simple experiment to prove you wrong. Go to your local community center or church or whatever social gathering you're part of and ask random people to name a boxer, just ANY boxer that is active today. See what they say. I can all but guarantee that NONE of them will mention usyk or fury or AJ. You're far more likely to get a response like Mayweather (even though he's been retired for near 10 years), even pacquiao or canelo. Some might even bring up tyson. the tyson- jake paul fight created a major buzz that even women i know who dont watch boxing were all into it. None of those women have a clue who usyk or fury or AJ is. My brother KINDA knew who wilder was when wilder was promoting the fury rematch, but he sure as hell knew floyd. one dude I worked with a few years back brought up Lomachenko when he found out i was into boxing. I was shocked he didnt bring up canelo, because this dude was mexican. my point is, most people today dont even associate boxing with the HW division. So, no, it's not the glamor division of boxing, not by a longshot.

there are many reasons boxing in general, and the HW division in particular, are now nothing more than a niche sport, but it basically comes down to the sport is notoriously corrupt and exploitative. as a result, nobody with any real options is going to get into HW boxing. therefore, the talent pool dries up, leaving us with the dregs like fury, Joyce, etc. with no HW talent left in the sport, the general public loses interest. without the interest of the general public, there is no "marquee" HW division to speak of.

You can make all the excuses you want for fury. He got his ass dropped and beat by a novice. if he didnt train, its even more of a reason for people to heap derision on the sport, its unprofessionalism, lack of pride and just plain shittiness. Just look at JCC jr., a former boxing champion, getting manhandled by a YouTuber. These things are extremely embarrassing for the sport of boxing. Funny thing is, fans like you dont seem to realize what's going on or even care. for example, you just want usyk to get the victory over dubois, even if it means dubois gets robbed of the KO win he deserved. All of that contributes to the deterioration of boxings reputation, because its more evidence of corruption. so, normal sports fans stop watching and stop caring. guys tell me they dont know what the hell is going on in boxing, particularly the HWs. basically the sport is killing itself

The fact that ngannou KNEW he could beat fury proves that HW boxing itself is in a freefall of talent. why else would a novice be so confident he could beat the HW champion in the novice's first boxing match? That would never have happened when Ali or Holmes or Tyson or Holyfield were active. It's because everybody and their auntie can see smell the HW boxing garbage dump. its an easy mark.

thank god for the lighter weight classes. THAT's what is keeping boxing on its feet. from 130 to 160. Those 30 lbs is where the infinity stone of boxing has resided for the past quarter century. NOT the HW division. For proof, just look at what weight classes the 10 highest grossing PPVs have been since the year 2000.

 

[brundlefly]

Again, it doesn't work like that. Tim Witherspoon used to post here btw. His account is still here. Feel free to ask him if Holmes would be considered de facto unified/undisputed. I've never heard Holmes refer to himself as that, either.

all of that is beside the point. in boxing we have an ethos of the man who beat the man who beat the man. that is what i'm going on.

Look, just forget it. if you don't get it by now, you never will.

 

[Kovalev's "Man Bag"]

OK, a simple experiment to prove you wrong. Go to your local community center or church or whatever social gathering you're part of and ask random people to name a boxer, just ANY boxer that is active today. See what they say. I can all but guarantee that NONE of them will mention usyk or fury or AJ. You're far more likely to get a response like Mayweather (even though he's been retired for near 10 years), even pacquiao or canelo. Some might even bring up tyson. the tyson- jake paul fight created a major buzz that even women i know who dont watch boxing were all into it. None of those women have a clue who usyk or fury or AJ is. My brother KINDA knew who wilder was when wilder was promoting the fury rematch, but he sure as hell knew floyd. one dude I worked with a few years back brought up Lomachenko when he found out i was into boxing. I was shocked he didnt bring up canelo, because this dude was mexican. my point is, most people today dont even associate boxing with the HW division. So, no, it's not the glamor division of boxing, not by a longshot.

there are many reasons boxing in general, and the HW division in particular, are now nothing more than a niche sport, but it basically comes down to the sport is notoriously corrupt and exploitative. as a result, nobody with any real options is going to get into HW boxing. therefore, the talent pool dries up, leaving us with the dregs like fury, Joyce, etc. with no HW talent left in the sport, the general public loses interest. without the interest of the general public, there is no "marquee" HW division to speak of.

You can make all the excuses you want for fury. He got his ass dropped and beat by a novice. if he didnt train, its even more of a reason for people to heap derision on the sport, its unprofessionalism, lack of pride and just plain shittiness. Just look at JCC jr., a former boxing champion, getting manhandled by a YouTuber. These things are extremely embarrassing for the sport of boxing. Funny thing is, fans like you dont seem to realize what's going on or even care. for example, you just want usyk to get the victory over dubois, even if it means dubois gets robbed of the KO win he deserved. All of that contributes to the deterioration of boxings reputation, because its more evidence of corruption. so, normal sports fans stop watching and stop caring. guys tell me they dont know what the hell is going on in boxing, particularly the HWs. basically the sport is killing itself

The fact that ngannou KNEW he could beat fury proves that HW boxing itself is in a freefall of talent. why else would a novice be so confident he could beat the HW champion in the novice's first boxing match? That would never have happened when Ali or Holmes or Tyson or Holyfield were active. It's because everybody and their auntie can see smell the HW boxing garbage dump. its an easy mark.

thank god for the lighter weight classes. THAT's what is keeping boxing on its feet. from 130 to 160. Those 30 lbs is where the infinity stone of boxing has resided for the past quarter century. NOT the HW division. For proof, just look at what weight classes the 10 highest grossing PPVs have been since the year 2000.

Usyk & Dubois are about to make over $200 million just in guaranteed purse money for their rematch and neither is a big PPV draw. Don't be surprised if they sell out Wembley as well or come close. Show me one other division where that's possible today.

It's funny that you act like nothing embarrassing ever happened to Ali, Holmes, Tyson or Holyfield. Ali, despite being past prime at the time, lost to a much smaller guy with 7 pro fights (Leon Spinks) that was almost 30 lbs lighter on fight night. Leon Spinks fought as low as cruiserweight. Holmes lost to Michael Spinks twice who was a blown-up light heavyweight. Tyson was on the wrong end of the biggest statistical upset in boxing history against Douglas. Holyfield himself lost to a blown-up light heavyweight in Moorer. In other heavyweight eras we've even had heavyweight champs lose to blown-up middleweights (like John Ruiz did against Roy) and straight up journeymen like Baer when he lost to Braddock. Pete Rademacher fought for a world title in his very first pro fight and managed to drop Patterson. I could keep going.

 

[Kovalev's "Man Bag"]

@brundlefly You should probably know that I don't rate this era of heavyweights highly. Even Usyk I don't rate in the division's all-time Top 15/20. On the other hand, it's also true that the guys today are bigger and more athletic than they've ever been. Unlike in previous eras you won't see any of today's heavyweight champs lose to fighters that have moved up multiple weight classes. There are no middleweights or light heavyweights crazy enough to even try messing with the big boys anymore. The assignment would be far too dangerous for them to attempt.

You also won't see any of today's heavyweight champs losing to a 45 year old grandpa like Foreman which Moorer did when he got wrecked by him in the 90s (still historically considered to be the second strongest heavyweight era). I'm sure you'll have excuses lined up for all of these embarrassing moments though. I'd love to hear them.

 

[SandisLL]

Usyk & Dubois are about to make over $200 million just in guaranteed purse money for their rematch and neither is a big PPV draw. Don't be surprised if they sell out Wembley as well or come close. Show me one other division where that's possible today.

It's funny that you act like nothing embarrassing ever happened to Ali, Holmes, Tyson or Holyfield. Ali, despite being past prime at the time, lost to a much smaller guy with 7 pro fights (Leon Spinks) that was almost 30 lbs lighter on fight night. Leon Spinks fought as low as cruiserweight. Holmes lost to Michael Spinks twice who was a blown-up light heavyweight. Tyson was on the wrong end of the biggest statistical upset in boxing history against Douglas. Holyfield himself lost to a blown-up light heavyweight in Moorer. In other heavyweight eras we've even had heavyweight champs lose to blown-up middleweights (like John Ruiz did against Roy) and straight up journeymen like Baer when he lost to Braddock. Pete Rademacher fought for a world title in his very first pro fight and managed to drop Patterson. I could keep going.

Patterson was small by modern " puny cruiserweight " era reality.

Modern " puny cruiserweight " in pro boxing are <200 lbs in weight ins and in ring in fight night might be <210 lbs if IBF title is on the line, some other orgs allows <220 lbs in the ring.

Patterson was approx 190 lber....and he was Oly champ and had HW title then.

 

[brundlefly]

Usyk & Dubois are about to make over $200 million just in guaranteed purse money for their rematch and neither is a big PPV draw. Don't be surprised if they sell out Wembley as well or come close. Show me one other division where that's possible today.

It's funny that you act like nothing embarrassing ever happened to Ali, Holmes, Tyson or Holyfield. Ali, despite being past prime at the time, lost to a much smaller guy with 7 pro fights (Leon Spinks) that was almost 30 lbs lighter on fight night. Leon Spinks fought as low as cruiserweight. Holmes lost to Michael Spinks twice who was a blown-up light heavyweight. Tyson was on the wrong end of the biggest statistical upset in boxing history against Douglas. Holyfield himself lost to a blown-up light heavyweight in Moorer. In other heavyweight eras we've even had heavyweight champs lose to blown-up middleweights (like John Ruiz did against Roy) and straight up journeymen like Baer when he lost to Braddock. Pete Rademacher fought for a world title in his very first pro fight and managed to drop Patterson. I could keep going.

All of the situations you cited are completely excusable by one fact: Those guys were BOXERS.

Leon Spinks was an olympic LHW gold medalist in BOXING. He was a guy who had boxed professionally and as an amateur for many years.
Michael Spinks was an olympic MW gold medalist in BOXING. He was a unified LHW champ.
Douglas was a lifelong BOXER who had challenged for the HW title against Tucker.
Moorer was a longtime world LHW boxing champ with 10 defenses.
Rademacher, Braddock etc., those guys were all BOXERS with a career to show for it.

I still don't think you're getting my point. Look, there is a difference between a guy who is a boxer by trade and a guy who is NOT a boxer by trade. For example, I have NO problem with lomachenko winning a world title in like his 3rd pro fight. I would have no problem with andy cruz winning a world title in his 8th pro fight. The reason is, because these guys are professional boxers with a long strong amateur boxing foundation. A boxer doesn't need to have this or that amout of pro fights before they challenge for the title. Just as there are boxers with 40 pro fights who have NEVER challenged for the title.

But to challenge for the title and be given a chance to win, you should at least be a BOXER.

Imagine a guy who played say, badminton, challenging the French Open Tennis champion to a tennis match....even if that guy is recognized as one of the best badminton players in the world. What do you think his chances of beating the french open tennis champ would be? How would the fans and the media perceive this challenge? Why do you think this has NEVER been done before even if the badminton guy has some tennis experience at the amateur level? It's because there's a gap in skillset the size of the grand canyon between what it takes to be the best badminton player and what it takes to be the best tennis player. It's two different sports.

ONLY in boxing, can a guy come from a DIFFERENT sport and challenge the HW boxing champ and fully believe he can win and then DROP the HW champ and take him 10 hard rounds and arguably win. Add to all this the fact that fury was like 6-9, 6-10 and about 275 lbs and considered to be still in his physical prime. He had ALL the advantages a fighter could want. And he STILL got his ass beat..by a guy who is NOT A BOXER.

But like I said before, the reason ngannou was confident he could win is because HW boxing is such shit these days that it seems any random dude off the street can decide to put on a pair of gloves one day and has an even shot at being HW champ. Look at wilder. Look at AJ. HW Boxing is literally the Goodwill Store of sports. cast offs from other sports can get all kinds of play. and it's all because the sport has been allowed to putrify from years and decades of corruption and opportunism and neglect.

 

[brundlefly]

@brundlefly the guys today are bigger and more athletic than they've ever been.

And then you woke up. Bigger maybe, but c'mon. Besides AJ and Wilder, this is possibly the LEAST athletic HW division we've ever had. i mean, fury? Hrgovic? zhang? kabayel? joyce? ruiz? i wouldn't even call dubois "athletic". I watch these guys and i'm like "how is this even possible?" got me thinking even I can beat their slow, cumbersome unathletic ass.

But there are some up and coming cuban fighters that might change my mind.

Unlike in previous eras you won't see any of today's heavyweight champs lose to fighters that have moved up multiple weight classes. There are no middleweights or light heavyweights crazy enough to even try messing with the big boys anymore. The assignment would be far too dangerous for them to attempt.

Again, nice try, but no ma'am! How about Okolie? Look, I don't even like zurdo ramirez, but you know he's angling for the HW division next...and zurdo was a SMW at one point...funny thing is, i can see zurdo beating the likes of dubois and giving usyk a good chess match.

If there's one thing we know about boxing is, size can be an advantage, but there's a whole lot of other attributes that can overcome size disadvantages.

If dudes arent trying that hard to move from MW or LHW up to HW with as much frequency these days, it's not because they're scared of the size difference. It's that the HW division is not a glamor, marquee division anymore and the HW title don't mean as much as it once did.

 

[Kovalev's "Man Bag"]

All of the situations you cited are completely excusable by one fact: Those guys were BOXERS.

Leon Spinks was an olympic LHW gold medalist in BOXING. He was a guy who had boxed professionally and as an amateur for many years.
Michael Spinks was an olympic MW gold medalist in BOXING. He was a unified LHW champ.
Douglas was a lifelong BOXER who had challenged for the HW title against Tucker.
Moorer was a longtime world LHW boxing champ with 10 defenses.
Rademacher, Braddock etc., those guys were all BOXERS with a career to show for it.

I still don't think you're getting my point. Look, there is a difference between a guy who is a boxer by trade and a guy who is NOT a boxer by trade. For example, I have NO problem with lomachenko winning a world title in like his 3rd pro fight. I would have no problem with andy cruz winning a world title in his 8th pro fight. The reason is, because these guys are professional boxers. A boxer doesn't need to have this or that amout of pro fights before they challenge for the title. Just as there are boxers with 40 pro fights who have NEVER challenged for the title.

But to challenge for the title and be given a chance to win, you should at least be a BOXER.

Imagine a guy who played say, badminton, challenging the French Open Tennis champion to a tennis match....even if that guy is recognized as one of the best badminton players in the world. What do you think his chances of beating the french open tennis champ would be? How would the fans and the media perceive this challenge? Why do you think this has NEVER been done before even if the badminton guy has some tennis experience at the amateur level? It's because there's a gap in skillset the size of the grand canyon between what it takes to be the best badminton player and what it takes to be the best tennis player. It's two different sports.

ONLY in boxing, can a guy come from a DIFFERENT sport and challenge the HW boxing champ and fully believe he can win and then DROP the HW champ and take him 10 hard rounds and arguably win. Add to all this the fact that fury was like 6-9, 6-10 and about 275 lbs and considered to be still in his physical prime. He had ALL the advantages a fighter could want. And he STILL got his ass beat..by a guy who is NOT A BOXER.

But like I said before, the reason ngannou was confident he could win is because HW boxing is such shit these days that it seems any random dude off the street can decide to put on a pair of gloves one day and has an even shot at being HW champ. Look at wilder. Look at AJ. HW Boxing is literally the Goodwill Store of sports. cast offs from other sports can get all kinds of play. and it's all because the sport has been allowed to putrify from years and decades of corruption and opportunism and neglect.

Ngannou didn't challenge Fury for a world title. It was a 10 rounder (non-title fight). Secondly, he was the reigning UFC heavyweight champion. The best heavyweight in MMA which involves boxing even if he wasn't formally a boxer. Fury never lost to Ngannou (regardless of how you scored it). The guys I listed earlier did and to fighters that were half their size, ancient, or journeymen that were never good boxers in the first place. You're trying to excuse those heavyweight champs for this as if it isn't a knock on those eras. Your bias is showing again. Show me one middleweight or light heavyweight around now that would have a realistic shot at beating either Usyk or Dubois at heavyweight.

You were also wrong about boxing's PPV records. Closed-Circuit TV (CCTV) was the original "Pay-Per-View" and Ali (a heavyweight) still holds the 2 top spots for most buys & revenue generated in sales. Specifically Ali vs Frazier 3 & Ali vs Foreman. Floyd vs Pac only holds the record for modern "home PPV" which didn't become popular until the 80s.

 

[SandisLL]

All of the situations you cited are completely excusable by one fact: Those guys were BOXERS.

Leon Spinks was an olympic LHW gold medalist in BOXING. He was a guy who had boxed professionally and as an amateur for many years.
Michael Spinks was an olympic MW gold medalist in BOXING. He was a unified LHW champ.
Douglas was a lifelong BOXER who had challenged for the HW title against Tucker.
Moorer was a longtime world LHW boxing champ with 10 defenses.
Rademacher, Braddock etc., those guys were all BOXERS with a career to show for it.

I still don't think you're getting my point. Look, there is a difference between a guy who is a boxer by trade and a guy who is NOT a boxer by trade. For example, I have NO problem with lomachenko winning a world title in like his 3rd pro fight. I would have no problem with andy cruz winning a world title in his 8th pro fight. The reason is, because these guys are professional boxers. A boxer doesn't need to have this or that amout of pro fights before they challenge for the title. Just as there are boxers with 40 pro fights who have NEVER challenged for the title.

But to challenge for the title and be given a chance to win, you should at least be a BOXER.

Imagine a guy who played say, badminton, challenging the French Open Tennis champion to a tennis match....even if that guy is recognized as one of the best badminton players in the world. What do you think his chances of beating the french open tennis champ would be? How would the fans and the media perceive this challenge? Why do you think this has NEVER been done before even if the badminton guy has some tennis experience at the amateur level? It's because there's a gap in skillset the size of the grand canyon between what it takes to be the best badminton player and what it takes to be the best tennis player. It's two different sports.

ONLY in boxing, can a guy come from a DIFFERENT sport and challenge the HW boxing champ and fully believe he can win and then DROP the HW champ and take him 10 hard rounds and arguably win. Add to all this the fact that fury was like 6-9, 6-10 and about 275 lbs and considered to be still in his physical prime. He had ALL the advantages a fighter could want. And he STILL got his ass beat..by a guy who is NOT A BOXER.

But like I said before, the reason ngannou was confident he could win is because HW boxing is such shit these days that it seems any random dude off the street can decide to put on a pair of gloves one day and has an even shot at being HW champ. Look at wilder. Look at AJ. HW Boxing is literally the Goodwill Store of sports. cast offs from other sports can get all kinds of play. and it's all because the sport has been allowed to putrify from years and decades of corruption and opportunism and neglect.

There is question : do you consider experience for example in KB as usable in boxing or no?

If you are talking about tennis, best guy I had " sparred " with was Nadal. It wasn't like for YT or so on. I had played tennis a bit sometimes but ofc when he adapted after 3 minutes, it was.... too precise etc for me.

 

[Kovalev's "Man Bag"]

Again, nice try, but no ma'am! How about Okolie? Look, I don't even like zurdo ramirez, but you know he's angling for the HW division next...and zurdo was a SMW at one point...funny thing is, i can see zurdo beating the likes of dubois and giving usyk a good chess match.

Has Zurdo challenged for a heavyweight title yet? Let me know when he does. As for Zurdo beating Dubois and him giving Usyk a "good chess match". You're hilarious. Yes, the guy that got schooled by Bivol at light heavyweight is going to beat the two best heavyweights on the planet. Laughable stuff.

 

[brundlefly]

Ngannou didn't challenge Fury for a world title. It was a 10 rounder (non-title fight). Secondly, he was the reigning UFC heavyweight champion. The best heavyweight in MMA which involves boxing even if he wasn't formally a boxer. Fury never lost to Ngannou (regardless of how you scored it).

Thank you! Finally, you admit that Ngannou was NOT a boxer. And in his FIRST pro boxing match, he dropped fury who WAS a boxer and also recognized as the HW champ. he took fury 10 hard rounds which many people thought ngannou, the guy who was not a boxer, in his first pro boxing match, won!

At least we're making SOME progress here in terms of coming to terms with this debacle.

The guys I listed earlier did and to fighters that were half their size, ancient, or journeymen that were never good boxers in the first place. You're trying to excuse those heavyweight champs for this as if it isn't a knock on those eras. Your bias is showing again. Show me one middleweight or light heavyweight around now that would have a realistic shot at beating either Usyk or Dubois at heavyweight.

Yes, we have had boxers losing to other boxers. It happens in nature. what DOESN'T happen in nature is a guy comes from another sport (meaning he is NOT a boxer) and drops and beats up the HW champ who IS a boxer.

That is a whole separate category of disgraceful when it comes to a sport being exposed for how far it's fallen.

You were also wrong about boxing's PPV records. Closed-Circuit TV (CCTV) was the original "Pay-Per-View" and Ali (a heavyweight) still holds the 2 top spots for most buys & revenue generated in sales. Specifically Ali vs Frazier 3 & Ali vs Foreman. Floyd vs Pac only holds the record for modern "home PPV" which didn't become popular until the 80s.

The more I post to you, the more I think you might also have a problem with comprehension. I already stated that I was talking about the past 25 years. Didn't I? Yes, during the Sullivan, Johnson, Dempsey, Louis, Marciano, Liston, Ali, Frazier, Foreman, Holmes, Tyson, Bowe, Holyfield and Lewis eras, HW boxing was marquee. However, as I said earlier, since about 2000, the HW div has fallen off.

If you're not actually gonna read my posts let me know right now so I can stop wasting my time.

 

[Kovalev's "Man Bag"]

Thank you! Finally, you admit that Ngannou was NOT a boxer. And in his FIRST pro boxing match, he dropped fury who WAS a boxer and also recognized as the HW champ. he took fury 10 hard rounds which many people thought ngannou, the guy who was not a boxer, in his first pro boxing match, won!

At least we're making SOME progress here in terms of coming to terms with this debacle.

Yes, we have had boxers losing to other boxers. It happens in nature. what DOESN'T happen in nature is a guy comes from another sport (meaning he is NOT a boxer) and drops and beats up the HW champ who IS a boxer.

That is a whole separate category of disgraceful when it comes to a sport being exposed for how far it's fallen.

The more I post to you, the more I think you might also have a problem with comprehension. I already stated that I was talking about the past 25 years. Didn't I? Yes, during the Sullivan, Johnson, Dempsey, Louis, Marciano, Liston, Ali, Frazier, Foreman, Holmes, Tyson, Bowe, Holyfield and Lewis eras, HW boxing was marquee. However, as I said earlier, since about 2000, the HW div has fallen off.

If you're not actually gonna read my posts let me know right now so I can stop wasting my time.

Actually, Ngannou had boxed before technically against Takam in an exhibition years back. Both were lumped up badly afterward so it wasn't just a playful sparring session. Pete Rademacher had never boxed professionally and still dropped the heavyweight champion in Floyd Patterson. In other words none of this is unprecedented. The majority of observers had Fury beating Ngannou FYI. I couldn't care less how you scored it. Remind me though, what happened to Ngannou when Joshua fought him? Oh, right, Ngannou didn't land a single significant shot and got sparked out in 5 minutes.

No, it isn't normal for the HEAVYWEIGHT champ to lose to a MIDDLEWEIGHT or LIGHT HEAVYWEIGHT. If it was then we wouldn't even need weight classes, genius. It also isn't natural or normal for young yet experienced fighters in their physical prime to lose to guys that are in their mid-40s. Have you seen what happens to guys that are 40+ in the heavyweight division today? Look no further than Zhang's last couple of fights. Parker beat him and Kabayel stopped him. That's what is supposed to happen. The heavyweights from the 90s like Moorer should take notes.

 

[brundlefly]

Has Zurdo challenged for a heavyweight title yet? Let me know when he does. As for Zurdo beating Dubois and him giving Usyk a "good chess match". You're hilarious. Yes, the guy that got schooled by Bivol at light heavyweight is going to beat the two best heavyweights on the planet. Laughable stuff.

well, i disagree with you that dubois is one of the best two HWs around. I'd rank kabayel above him. In fact, if bakole can get a decent training camp and get his mind right, I'd take bakole above dubois too. I like Dubois and respect his grit, but ability-wise, he belongs in the bottom half of the top 10 contenders.

Go ahead and laugh, bro. They laughed at RJJ when he said he wanted to be HW champ. They laughed at James Toney and David Haye. They even laughed at the audacity of Michael Spinks going up against the great Larry Holmes. Seems to me you watch a lot of boxing, but you don't truly understand boxing.

 

[Kovalev's "Man Bag"]

well, i disagree with you that dubois is one of the best two HWs around. I'd rank kabayel above him. In fact, if bakole can get a decent training camp and get his mind right, I'd take bakole above dubois too. I like Dubois and respect his grit, but ability-wise, he belongs in the bottom half of the top 10 contenders.

Go ahead and laugh, bro. They laughed at RJJ when he said he wanted to be HW champ. They laughed at James Toney and David Haye. They even laughed at the audacity of Michael Spinks going up against the great Larry Holmes. Seems to me you watch a lot of boxing, but you don't truly understand boxing.

LOL at rating Kabayel over Dubois. You're such a clown. RJJ picked the weakest heavyweight titleholder he could find which is fair because he's not a natural heavyweight. Why do you think that Toney also picked the same heavyweight to fight (John Ruiz)? Except Toney was never legitimately a heavyweight champion. He popped for roids days after beating Ruiz and was stripped of the title. You know how many former Super Middleweight champs (where Zurdo started) have won heavyweight world titles? Just one, RJJ. So, good luck to Zurdo. He's always been slow and has little power so just imagine him as a bulked up heavyweight. He'll be even slower, have worse cardio, and won't have enough pop to keep those hard hitting monsters off of him.

 

[Kovalev's "Man Bag"]

@brundlefly BTW, now that I recall, Ngannou did start out as a boxer before he found MMA. He had several amateur bouts in Cameroon and won them all according to him. So, you can't really say that he wasn't a boxer. He'd boxed before competitively in the amateurs and had exhibitions against world rated pro boxers on top of his MMA career (which involved cross-training in boxing).

 

[brundlefly]

Actually, Ngannou had boxed before technically against Takam in an exhibition years back. Both were lumped up badly afterward so it wasn't just a playful sparring session. Pete Rademacher had never boxed professionally and still dropped the heavyweight champion in Floyd Patterson. In other words none of this is unprecedented. The majority of observers had Fury beating Ngannou FYI. I couldn't care less how you scored it. Remind me though, what happened to Ngannou when Joshua fought him? Oh, right, Ngannou didn't land a single significant shot and got sparked out in 5 minutes.

You're grasping at straws. Pete Rademacher was a BOXER. An olympic gold medalist BOXER. Why can't you get that through your head? Rademacher and patterson were in the same sport. Ngannou and Fury were not. Ngannou fought fury in fury's sport, not the other way around. If it had been an MMA fight, ngannou would have wiped the floor with fury in 1 minute flat.

It's really pathetic how you keep tryna legitimize fury's performance against ngannou with all these lame excuses.

Then you bring up joshua-ngannou. What's your point? That Joshua is a better boxer than Ngannou? he's supposed to be! Joshua's a BOXER and Ngannou is NOT! Dude, that was what Joshua was SUPPOSED TO DO! You don't get credit for doing what you're supposed to do. like, wtf!

No, it isn't normal for the HEAVYWEIGHT champ to lose to a MIDDLEWEIGHT or LIGHT HEAVYWEIGHT. If it was then we wouldn't even need weight classes, genius. It also isn't natural or normal for young yet experienced fighters in their physical prime to lose to guys that are in their mid-40s. Have you seen what happens to guys that are 40+ in the heavyweight division today? Look no further than Zhang's last couple of fights. Parker beat him and Kabayel stopped him. That's what is supposed to happen. The heavyweights from the 90s like Moorer should take notes.

first of all, none of the fighters you're talking about came in at the LHW or MW weight limit. They all fought at HW. Some might have been smaller HWs than others, but they were all HW.

After all, wilder was 225 and fury was 277 and nobody seemed to have a problem with that.

Secondly, you seem to want it both ways. young Spinks beats old ali and you say it was a bad look for ali. Then old foreman beats young moorer and now it's a bad look for moorer. Your arguments lack consistency with convenient logic. everything with you is just agenda, agenda, agenda. But, hey, I understand... A little honesty on your part would destroy your self-delusions.

Yes, AJ ko'd ngannou. and Foreman Ko'd moorer. Know what else happened? Dubois KO'd Usyk, as much as you want to deny it because it doesn't fit your agenda. Because, if ONE heavyweight boxer hits another heavyweight boxer, anything could happen. But that's not what happened with fury and ngannou. fury-ngannou was 10 rounds of competitive action, and that's my point that you still don't seem to get.

 

[brundlefly]

@brundlefly BTW, now that I recall, Ngannou did start out as a boxer before he found MMA. He had several amateur bouts in Cameroon and won them all according to him. So, you can't really say that he wasn't a boxer. He'd boxed before competitively in the amateurs and had exhibitions against world rated pro boxers on top of his MMA career (which involved cross-training in boxing).

Thank you again! You're admitting that the HW division has fallen so far that a dude who fought as an amateur for a while then switched sports, can then challenge the HW boxing champ in his FIRST pro fight and drop that champ and arguably win the fight over 10 rounds of boxing.

Let me tell you something, my man. The fact that this story didn't get a lot more coverage from the angle I'm discussing it, is part of what's wrong with boxing. HW boxing is a scam. A cover up. The corruption in HW boxing finally caught up with it and exposed it for what it truly is...a friggin joke.

There was a time when the HW champ of the world meant something. It was an honored title. Like being a King or the Pope. These days no man needs to even respect the HW champ because of the shit show HW boxing has become, thanks to corrupt officials and organizations and "fans" such as yourself who don't give a fuck about anything but your own petty agenda.

 

[brundlefly]

good luck to Zurdo. He's always been slow and has little power so just imagine him as a bulked up heavyweight. He'll be even slower, have worse cardio, and won't have enough pop to keep those hard hitting monsters off of him.

So, zurdo is slow, huh? and he has bad cardio...and there's some real "monsters" at hw. Dude you crack me up with your ironic takes.

 

[Kovalev's "Man Bag"]

Thank you again! You're admitting that the HW division has fallen so far that a dude who fought as an amateur for a while then switched sports, can then challenge the HW boxing champ in his FIRST pro fight and drop that champ and arguably win the fight over 10 rounds of boxing.

Except an amateur had already come into the pros and dropped a professional reigning world champion in his first fight. Again, Rademacher vs Patterson is no different than Fury vs Ngannou. Rademacher was an Olympic gold medalist as an amateur but still an amateur boxer all the same. No, Ngannou didn't arguably win. He got outboxed in a boring, uneventful fight that Fury treated like an exhibition. When we finally had film on Ngannou and he fought a serious opponent that actually bothered to train he couldn't escape the 2nd round.