International Iran fires huge barrage of missiles at Israel

[Halifax]

I’ve read up on Hamas charter. It was actually updated. Likkid charter specifically says it’s against any two state solution, if you want to talk about charters.

Hamas in 2017: The document in full

Hamas explains general principles and objectives in 42-article document

www.middleeasteye.net

“Hamas affirms that its conflict is with the Zionist project not with the Jews because of their religion. Hamas does not wage a struggle against the Jews because they are Jewish but wages a struggle against the Zionists who occupy Palestine. Yet, it is the Zionists who constantly identify Judaism and the Jews with their own colonial project and illegal entity.“


So here is their charter that you keep specifically referring to and there they are actually outlining that the fight is not against Jewish people.


And hezbollah was founded in 1982 in response to the Israeli invasion lol.

*Shrugs
I am for a 2 state solution as long as Palestinians unequivocally give up the "right of return". You can make a state in what land you have

 

[iwannabeadored]

*Shrugs
I am for a 2 state solution as long as Palestinians unequivocally give up the "right of return". You can make a state in what land you have

Has to be a state , that has sovereignty which Israel has never offered or allowed.

 

[TheMaster]

You lose wars, you tend to have to make concessions.


Has ever been thus throughout human history

Agreed.
There should be a two state solution between the Native Americans and the Euro-American land grabbers where they all agree to move north and give back Texas, but it aint happening.

 

[Gotosleepho]

I wish there could be a two state solution but I think it's not possible now. I don't think either side wants peace. If only there were a country that would take the Palestinian refugees in. They can't just keep getting massacred forever. That's no life and it's inhumane.

 

[SuperAlly]

I wish there could be a two state solution but I think it's not possible now. I don't think either side wants peace. If only there were a country that would take the Palestinian refugees in. They can't just keep getting massacred forever. That's no life and it's inhumane.

Didn't a few countries take them in and they caused enormous problems that those countries still haven't recovered from?

 

[Halifax]

Has to be a state , that has sovereignty which Israel has never offered or allowed.

Depends on what you mean by "sovereignty "


If sovereignty means they get to arm up and invite larger and larger armed forces from Iran to assist in the "garrison" and unsupervised imports of drones and weapons, no, that's never going to happen.

Controlled Vassal state

 

[tastaylvr]

Depends on what you mean by "sovereignty "


If sovereignty means they get to arm up and invite larger and larger armed forces from Iran to assist in the "garrison" and unsupervised imports of drones and weapons, no, that's never going to happen.

Controlled Vassal state

It’s comical to think that Iran has any sway over Hamas lol

Iran has supported Hamas less than America has Israel. They barely have a few hundred million. Iran had no idea Oct 7 was even going to happen.

The Middle East is a battle of SA v Iran for regional sovereignty. SA would also rather align themselves with Israel than Iran since they don’t want to be under the boot of Persian rule.

It’s basically arabs vs Persians and on sunnis vs shiah

 

[Halifax]

It’s comical to think that Iran has any sway over Hamas lol

Iran has supported Hamas less than America has Israel. They barely have a few hundred million. Iran had no idea Oct 7 was even going to happen.

The Middle East is a battle of SA v Iran for regional sovereignty. SA would also rather align themselves with Israel than Iran since they don’t want to be under the boot of Persian rule.

It’s basically arabs vs Persians and on sunnis vs shiah

The hypothetical arm up partner can be anyone. Dinkleberry up there says palestine should have full sovereignty in a 2 state solution. I say otherwise

The point is, they will not be given leave to arm up. Or invite others who are armed up.

 

[iwannabeadored]

Depends on what you mean by "sovereignty "


If sovereignty means they get to arm up and invite larger and larger armed forces from Iran to assist in the "garrison" and unsupervised imports of drones and weapons, no, that's never going to happen.

Controlled Vassal state

again we are playing around with words. If you cannot control you own natural resources, water, security, it’s a non starter. It’s not a state. It’s like calling vegan meat beef. The camp David accords never offered an actual state .

 

[SuperAlly]

again we are playing around with words. If you cannot control you own natural resources, water, security, it’s a non starter. It’s not a state. It’s like calling vegan meat beef. The camp David accords never offered an actual state .

Show you can look after your vegan bacon and burgers first and if you show you can live reasonably, side by side with othe people and not acting like genocidal maniacs and then you can have some rump. Maybe in time even a sirloin.

 

[iwannabeadored]

Show you can look after your vegan bacon and burgers first and if you show you can live reasonably, side by side with othe people and not acting like genocidal maniacs and then you can have some rump. Maybe in time even a sirloin.

Lmao back to the numbers again; how many Israelis have died and how many Palestinians in the last 20 years? Who is genocidal

 

[Halifax]

again we are playing around with words. If you cannot control you own natural resources, water, security, it’s a non starter. It’s not a state. It’s like calling vegan meat beef. The camp David accords never offered an actual state .

So japan wasn't a country for the years they were demilitarized after WW2?

Sorry, until Palestine shows years of goodwill and that they won't break the peace and covertly smuggle weapons in with the intent of attacking Israel, They don't get to militarize and their imports will be supervised and confiscated if weapons are found . If that's a deal breaker for a 2 state solution, so be it.

 

[SuperAlly]

Lmao back to the numbers again; how many Israelis have died and how many Palestinians in the last 20 years? Who is genocidal

Hamas. Palestinians.

Give me a harder one next time.

 

[iwannabeadored]

Hamas. Palestinians.

Give me a harder one next time.

Yep dodged the question. Thanks. The only genocidal regime by pure numbers is Israel. Even before October 7th 100s of Palestinians died in the West Bank.

 

[SuperAlly]

So japan wasn't a country for the years they were demilitarized after WW2?

Sorry, until Palestine shows years of goodwill and that they won't break the peace and covertly smuggle weapons in with the intent of attacking Israel, They don't get to militarize and their imports will be supervised and confiscated if weapons are found . If that's a deal breaker for a 2 state solution, so be it.

When you have shown you cannot be trusted not to try and arm up for Oct 7th type genocidal attacks - and Hamas actions over the decades demonstrate this again and again - than there absolutely should be limitations on what you can and can't do.

After a significant period of demonstrating you are committed to peace and only trying to improve your country and your peoples situation, do the sanctions get restricted. Over time you can work towards that full self governance if you show you are worthy of it.

 

[SuperAlly]

Yep dodged the question. Thanks. The only genocidal regime by pure numbers is Israel. Even before October 7th 100s of Palestinians died in the West Bank.

I answered your question. Read better.

 

[iwannabeadored]

So japan wasn't a country for the years they were demilitarized after WW2?

Sorry, until Palestine shows years of goodwill and that they won't break the peace and covertly smuggle weapons in with the intent of attacking Israel, They don't get to militarize and their imports will be supervised and confiscated if weapons are found . If that's a deal breaker for a 2 state solution, so be it.

And natural resources? Yep gotcha. No intention of having a two state.


Should the Israelis give up their arms since they are showing aggression against Palestinians in the West Bank? And continuing to take land?

 

[SuperAlly]

Who is genocidal

Hamas. Palestinians.

Give me a harder one next time.

Thanks for playing

 

[iwannabeadored]

When you have shown you cannot be trusted not to try and arm up for Oct 7th type genocidal attacks - and Hamas actions over the decades demonstrate this again and again - than there absolutely should be limitations on what you can and can't do.

Again 2023 PRIOR to October 7th was one of the worst years for Palestinians murdered.

For Palestinians in the West Bank, 2023 was the deadliest year on record - occupied Palestinian territory

News and Press Release in English on occupied Palestinian territory about Health, Protection and Human Rights and more; published on 15 Dec 2023 by MSF

reliefweb.int

I suppose you think the Palestinians just gotta take it

After a significant period of demonstrating you are committed to peace and only trying to improve your country and your peoples situation, do the sanctions get restricted. Over time you can work towards that full self governance if you show you are worthy of it.

 

[iwannabeadored]

Thanks for playing

Yep and what about the numbers ?