International/Olympic wrestling discussion.

Xuh said:
He went 10-6 with Hungary's own Dagestani mercenary so that's something.

Side note: the number of Dagestanis repping other countries is reaching ridiculous levels. I know some people are OK with that because 'I want to see only the best' and 'it helps grow the sport' but if anything I think it's a reflection of poor health of the sport, where more and more of the whole field are coming from just one small corner of earth; and a charismatic guy like Chamizo might increase the profile of the sport and even the participation (a bit) for their patron federation's countries, but those guys... nope.
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Don't forget about Ossetians too; Salkazanov (SVK), Tsabolov, Gulaev (SRB), Khakhanov (GRE) and possibly a few others are all Ossetians. I understand why they represent other countries, because the talent in their home country's nationals (Russian nationals) is just too tough. Valiev (just won the U23 worlds and european championships this year), Shiraev, Baev, Gazimagomedov and Zhamalov could all very well win Olympic and World medals at 74kg, but Sidakov is too good and keeps improving - doesn't give them a chance. It is comical to see all of these Dagestani and Ossetian wrestlers compete for their adopted countries in the international tournaments; it almost becomes like another Russian championship when you see them face-off with their counterparts/teammates from back home.

I find it quite funny when these wrestlers accomplish something in their adopted country, and some governor, or president rewards them with a nice car and apartment; although, they have nothing to do with the country lmao, and are only there to train on the occasion .
 
Xuh said:
He went 10-6 with Hungary's own Dagestani mercenary so that's something.

Side note: the number of Dagestanis repping other countries is reaching ridiculous levels. I know some people are OK with that because 'I want to see only the best' and 'it helps grow the sport' but if anything I think it's a reflection of poor health of the sport, where more and more of the whole field are coming from just one small corner of earth; and a charismatic guy like Chamizo might increase the profile of the sport and even the participation (a bit) for their patron federation's countries, but those guys... nope.
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Well put. A lot of people don’t look at the big picture when looking at things like that
 
Xuh said:
He went 10-6 with Hungary's own Dagestani mercenary so that's something.

Side note: the number of Dagestanis repping other countries is reaching ridiculous levels. I know some people are OK with that because 'I want to see only the best' and 'it helps grow the sport' but if anything I think it's a reflection of poor health of the sport, where more and more of the whole field are coming from just one small corner of earth; and a charismatic guy like Chamizo might increase the profile of the sport and even the participation (a bit) for their patron federation's countries, but those guys... nope.
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Is Chamizo charismatic? In the Kyle Dake superfight he came across as a huge asshat trash talking Dake for not being talented and training a lot.
 
Dece said:
I don't understand why this is part of the UWW, they should stick to wrestling. This just look like watered down MMA.
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Because in ancient Olympics a lot of wrestlers competed in Pankration. Ancient wrestling had takedowns, throws and submissions so 2/3 of pankration arsenal is Wrestling.
 
Dece said:
I don't understand why this is part of the UWW, they should stick to wrestling. This just look like watered down MMA.
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I think it'd be cooler if they had open-hand strikes, ala old school Pancrase. That would also at least sorta distinguish it.
 
Dece said:
I don't understand why this is part of the UWW, they should stick to wrestling. This just look like watered down MMA.
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Because from a completely cynical point of view. UWW knows that it can make lesser countries feel relevant by getting them medals in watered down styles with less depth and quality of competition.

While they are working in building freestyle/Greco. And it’s starting to pay off in central/south America. Building that takes time though, so the things needed to build up from nothing take time and aren’t as familiar to people not involved in the American system where you’d have to rebuild every 3-4 years.

Also, they get revenue from tournament fees. UWW has the beach wrestling and pankration tournament market cornered.



on a side note, I never really will buy the “argument” that UWW pankration is emulating its ancient roots. MMA does. NHB does. This is just combat Sambo with extra rules.

but hey “Greco-Roman” is a French folkstyle they marketed as emulating the ancient Greeks and Roman’s as well. So marketing gimmicks don’t have to be accurate to succeed
 
It is history not marketing and I don't see jaket in Pankration contrary to combat sambo.
 
jack36767 said:
but hey “Greco-Roman” is a French folkstyle they marketed as emulating the ancient Greeks and Roman’s as well. So marketing gimmicks don’t have to be accurate to succeed
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True, true. I've had countless arguments with people who refuse to acknowledge this.
 
Kforcer said:
True, true. I've had countless arguments with people who refuse to acknowledge this.
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Of course, Greco-Roman Wrestling is a modern style.
Russia is the best wrestling power and the wrestling federation supports a lot Grappling and Pankration, so...
 
Grappler111 said:
Of course, Greco-Roman Wrestling is a modern style.
Russia is the best wrestling power and the wrestling federation supports a lot Grappling and Pankration, so...
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That doesn't make it a good or bad rule-set. I think, given it is the UWW, something should be done to ensure it has a wrestling and grappling emphasis; something like grappling WITH strikes rather than simply a contest where you can both grapple and strike. Open hand strikes, or maybe punches only to the body with kicks to the face permitted, ala kyokushin, something like that.
 
Grappler111 said:
Of course, Greco-Roman Wrestling is a modern style.
Russia is the best wrestling power and the wrestling federation supports a lot Grappling and Pankration, so...
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Shrug. You should try being useful and helping wrestling in your country instead of running to the beach because you’re scared to do the work to be competitive
 
Grappler111 said:
Because in ancient Olympics a lot of wrestlers competed in Pankration. Ancient wrestling had takedowns, throws and submissions so 2/3 of pankration arsenal is Wrestling.
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Still doesn't make any sense it's a different sport and we don't live in that age anymore. And that sport died out and there are several different pankration organisations with different rulesets. MMA is probably the sport that resembles the original pancration the most.

If the UWW wants to add more styles they should stick to other wrestling and grappling arts without strikes.

Kforcer said:
I think it'd be cooler if they had open-hand strikes, ala old school Pancrase. That would also at least sorta distinguish it.
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I've never seen the UWW version of pankration before and didn't even knew it existed. The version I'm thinking of when I hear pankration is the greek style with their traditional clothing, no gloves and no strikes to the head. Looks like a greek version of kyokushin.

Personally I think there are too many different rulesets and different styles that exist for no legitimate reason, it's just watered down MMA. Just do MMA instead.
 
Grappler111 said:
It is history not marketing and I don't see jaket in Pankration contrary to combat sambo.
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Yes. It is marketing. Whistle stops and no low kicking is literally the opposite of what pankration was.. it’s ruleset is the most close to combat sambo with nogi. It’s literally nogi combat sambo.
 
Dece said:
Still doesn't make any sense it's a different sport and we don't live in that age anymore. And that sport died out and there are several different pankration organisations with different rulesets. MMA is probably the sport that resembles the original pancration the most.

If the UWW wants to add more styles they should stick to other wrestling and grappling arts without strikes.



I've never seen the UWW version of pankration before and didn't even knew it existed. The version I'm thinking of when I hear pankration is the greek style with their traditional clothing, no gloves and no strikes to the head. Looks like a greek version of kyokushin.

Personally I think there are too many different rulesets and different styles that exist for no legitimate reason, it's just watered down MMA. Just do MMA instead.
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The person gushing over it so much literally has said he supports them because it’s too hard for his country to produce medalists in freestyle so this is an easy way to get medals. Watered down weaker competition is literally why he promotes it lol
 
jack36767 said:
Marketing gimmick worked though
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Truth. FILA actually seemed to favor Greco-Roman for whatever reason and even seemed to push the idea that it was an ancient style as opposed to freestyle on their website. I don't know if UWW is the same or not. But I specifically remember FILA stating on their website that freestyle had a "far less storied history" or something tantamount to that.
 
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