International/Olympic wrestling discussion.

[yetanother]

Ahh so he should just give up and go to mma if he doesn’t get immediate gratification?

Can he still improve a lot? Like make significant technical improvement or get (more?) roided up without getting caught?

 

[jack36767]

It is a world title after Olympics...

Yes. The 6th one. The 6th UWW senior title. 9th UWW medal. 8 of which were at an Olympic weight. Also undefeated in medal matches.

Coincidentally. The Cuban training in New York who plays for his wife’s team occasionally is 2-3 in medal matches vs the US. With 2 not 6 world titles. With one of both at a non Olympic weight against JBs old practice dummy.

But hey, never let data get in the way of you being butthurt.


I’m aware you aren’t/weren’t that high level of a wrestler, not a coach, and can’t appreciate the high level of technique JB is actually displaying. Despite the fact he’s done it well past the age it could just be the “athleticism” and shown physical decline.

Just focus on da beach wrestling

 

[Kforcer]

It is a world title after Olympics...

A world title is a world title. And if you want to make the case that this world championships is less meaningful because it happened the same year as the Olympics, then you'd have to apply that standard to everyone else as well, which hasn't been the case.

 

[jack36767]

Can he still improve a lot? Like make significant technical improvement or get (more?) roided up without getting caught?

He actually has if you watch the matches since moving to the Nittany Lion Wrestling club. Much better movement, shot selection and tactics overall. The one position he’s actually fucked up in multiple times, the front headlock, is a comparatively easy fix.

Additionally, while Snyder is well aware of how the last few matches have gone. He’s literally on the single hand amount of people with.. a W, an offensive, and defense takedown on Sad. He also loves wrestling.

Also, the majority of actual high level wrestlers who came to mma only did so because they literally had to do so to pay bills. Not because they actually liked or wanted to do mma. Snyder literally makes 5-10k a day to run a clinic where he briefly shows ankle picks or snapdowns. Have multiple shoe deals for very well selling shoes that sell for around 150 a pair. He’s also a borderline fundamentalist Christian who would not fit in well with the majority of the actual mma crowd.

The argument that he should just give up because he hasn’t gotten instant gratification is literally a mentally weak one. By that argument and logic, and what you have said about your own bjj career.. I could say that you should just give up. Which would be stupid and short sighted of me. So I’m not saying you should.. but that’s the logic being used

 

[jack36767]

I'm surprised more people aren't talking about Burroughs' historic feat, not to mention his impressive redemption following his consecutive Olympic failures.

I think it’s more everyone expected him to do it as much as anything

 

[y.91]

Man this turkish guy Burhan Akbudak is killing it. 38 - 2 on his way to the final. The most dominant performance so far.

 

[Kforcer]

I think it’s more everyone expected him to do it as much as anything

I guess that is the double-edged sword of being as good as he is. People call you past it or overhyped when you fall short of expectations and when you succeed, its just what is expected of you.

 

[jack36767]

I guess that is the double-edged sword of being as good as he is. People call you past it or overhyped when you fall short of expectations and when you succeed, its just what is expected of you.

He’s almost become the quintessential wrestlers wrestler. I’ve been finding that as he’s kept up the consistency. He’s so fundamentally sound and solid in and done it so long. That you almost have to have to have to have wrestled at a certain level to truly appreciate what he’s done at what is always the deepest weight asides from 65kg.

Also, quite frankly. There is aspects to how people look at Burroughs that are very clear.. but it’s at a point people either acknowledge it or pretend it’s not a part of it.

Last thought, It’s become quite amusing to me when people talk about which wrestlers are “complete” or “technical” and how they often fawn over wrestlers who style is extremely dependent upon physical characteristics and pure athleticism because it’s “cool”. Or will act like Gable Stevenson is a “more complete” wrestler than Burroughs despite the fact he uses upper body techniques as little as Burroughs

 

[yetanother]

He actually has if you watch the matches since moving to the Nittany Lion Wrestling club. Much better movement, shot selection and tactics overall. The one position he’s actually fucked up in multiple times, the front headlock, is a comparatively easy fix.

Additionally, while Snyder is well aware of how the last few matches have gone. He’s literally on the single hand amount of people with.. a W, an offensive, and defense takedown on Sad. He also loves wrestling.

Also, the majority of actual high level wrestlers who came to mma only did so because they literally had to do so to pay bills. Not because they actually liked or wanted to do mma. Snyder literally makes 5-10k a day to run a clinic where he briefly shows ankle picks or snapdowns. Have multiple shoe deals for very well selling shoes that sell for around 150 a pair. He’s also a borderline fundamentalist Christian who would not fit in well with the majority of the actual mma crowd.

The argument that he should just give up because he hasn’t gotten instant gratification is literally a mentally weak one. By that argument and logic, and what you have said about your own bjj career.. I could say that you should just give up. Which would be stupid and short sighted of me. So I’m not saying you should.. but that’s the logic being used

If he is improving it makes sense to try to beat Sadualev.
As a someone who just watches wrestling stuff on youtube (and does some low single legs from time to time in gi bjj) I don't have a clue if he is improving or not.
Myself I hope to still improve a lot. If I felt I can learn anything new anymore I would probably look for a new hobby.
I actually fought Tommy Langaker twice in a local tournament (he is an European champion and was second at the worlds) last month. He subbed me twice so I have a ton to improve to get to a level to fight high level guys, but at least I swept him in the second match so at least parts of my game are working.

 

[y.91]

If he is improving it makes sense to try to beat Sadualev.
As a someone who just watches wrestling stuff on youtube (and does some low single legs from time to time in gi bjj) I don't have a clue if he is improving or not.
Myself I hope to still improve a lot. If I felt I can learn anything new anymore I would probably look for a new hobby.
I actually fought Tommy Langaker twice in a local tournament (he is an European champion and was second at the worlds) last month. He subbed me twice so I have a ton to improve to get to a level to fight high level guys, but at least I swept him in the second match so at least parts of my game are working.

Many people thought Snyder was on the decline but he came back much better and stronger than expected.

Losing twice to the same guy in the final within a few months is extremely mentally taxing. Let's see what Snyder is gonna do now. I hope he bounces back, by far my favorite American Wrestler ever.

He won't transition to MMA, that's for sure. I think he'll work even harder now. He's what? 25 yo? Still plenty of time to improve. Its not even his peak / prime. He's a fucking Monster.

Riza Kayaalp lost to Mijain Lopez 3 times in row at the Olympic games. This things happen, bro.

 

[jack36767]

If he is improving it makes sense to try to beat Sadualev.
As a someone who just watches wrestling stuff on youtube (and does some low single legs from time to time in gi bjj) I don't have a clue if he is improving or not.
Myself I hope to still improve a lot. If I felt I can learn anything new anymore I would probably look for a new hobby.
I actually fought Tommy Langaker twice in a local tournament (he is an European champion and was second at the worlds) last month. He subbed me twice so I have a ton to improve to get to a level to fight high level guys, but at least I swept him in the second match so at least parts of my game are working.

Without any malice. Having the opposite mentality is why he’s a 3x world, 7 time medalist.

and yes, he is improving. While I’m not anywhere near Cael. The biggest adjustment he needs to make that hasn’t markedly improved is his short offense. He’s too used to getting away with chilling there

 

[rmongler]

Without any malice. Having the opposite mentality is why he’s a 3x world, 7 time medalist.

and yes, he is improving. While I’m not anywhere near Cael. The biggest adjustment he needs to make that hasn’t markedly improved is his short offense. He’s too used to getting away with chilling there

That's certainly one thing that sets Dake apart; chestwrap game is on point. By necessity if nothing else, thanks to his sparring partner.

 

[jack36767]

That's certainly one thing that sets Dake apart; chestwrap game is on point. By necessity if nothing else, thanks to his sparring partner.

Snyder isn’t built to chest wrap. He’s used to hanging on because he can get away with it against most of his competitors

 

[rmongler]

Snyder isn’t built to chest wrap. He’s used to hanging on because he can get away with it against most of his competitors

Has Gene Mills worked with USAW recently, i wonder? I can think of few other coaches with a similar build who are killers in those positions, maybe someone at Titan-Mercury should make some calls. Well that's my fantasy scenario anyways.

No matter who you're working with though, simply making the commitment that you need to work on an area to begin with will take you further than anything else (and nothing else can take you anywhere without that first, either).

 

[Grappler111]

Burroughs is a great champion, a great boring champion...

 

[jack36767]

Has Gene Mills worked with USAW recently, i wonder? I can think of few other coaches with a similar build who are killers in those positions, maybe someone at Titan-Mercury should make some calls. Well that's my fantasy scenario anyways.

No matter who you're working with though, simply making the commitment that you need to work on an area to begin with will take you further than anything else (and nothing else can take you anywhere without that first, either).

It’s also the weight class. Snyder’s athletic ability and basic ways of moving As well as cost to benefit of hours sunk vs developing cleaner reattacks from there.

Gene Mills coaches at a high school in NY state coaching golf and wrestling. Seems to like it. Talked on phone with him once about coaching resources about his half. He and schalles have always been outsiders to the USA wrestling establishment.

Oh and notice how our Northern Italian friend did the super passive aggressive thing he does where he won’t reply to your actual post lol

 

[jack36767]

Burroughs is a great champion, a great boring champion...

Yes, I’m aware that you Sargent skilled enough to appreciate the fundamental sound positioning, savvy, and technique unless it’s a wrestler you like or “cool” looking.

It is a very good thing you don’t coach because you’d develop no one trying to get them wrestling like the Cuban Rental. Lol

It also makes sense why you’re promoting the low level styles with no depth yet. You have no idea how you would actually make the Olympic teams better

 

[Grappler111]

He is not able to score 1 point with upper body techniques. He is a boring wrestler contrary to Dake.

 

[jack36767]

He is not able to score 1 point with upper body techniques. He is a boring wrestler contrary to Dake.

He actually has a little metzger he’s hit multiple times if you actually watch the film. Again, I understand you’re a casual low level fan

 

[Grappler111]

He actually has a little metzger he’s hit multiple times if you actually watch the film. Again, I understand you’re a casual low level fan

Like you...