In retrospect is Keith Jardine a top 5 journeyman all time

[560ti]

I am not arguing that Jardine is or is not a gatekeeper, I was saying I completely disagree that a journeyman is someone who "stayed mainly fighting in the upper echelons as opposed to stopping fighters from getting there"

Our computer Gods say...
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100%. Go into any serious MMA or boxing gym and they will 100% agree with you.

A journeyman is a solid tier 2 guy with no real career path/direction. 90% of the guys listed in this thread are tier 1 guys with winning records some of which with top 10 wins (which obviously isn't a journeyman).

I think we are kinda splitting hairs

No, you're not splitting hairs. A guy that literally has wins over Vera, Griffin, Liddell and a draw against Mousasi is not even close to a journeyman.

I’m sorry the word journeyman alludes you

Weird to be this cocky but if you literally went into any serious MMA gym and started calling guys like Jardine a journeyman they would laugh at your face.

Most of you don't even know what a journeyman is?

Exactly. Guys like Mousasi and Miller are not freaking journeyman what is this forum smoking?

Derrick Krantz and Dakota Cochrane are journeyman. There's a gigantic gap from those two guys and what most would consider a "gatekeeper" so you can't even use the excuse of "oh journeyman and gatekeeper are almost interchangeable"

 

[Mind Mine]

100%. Go into any serious MMA or boxing gym and they will 100% agree with you.

A journeyman is a solid tier 2 guy with no real career path/direction. 90% of the guys listed in this thread are tier 1 guys with winning records some of which with top 10 wins.

No you're not splitting hairs. A guy that literally has wins over Vera, Griffin, Liddell and a draw against Mousasi is not even close to a journeyman.

Weird to be this cocky but if you literally went into any serious MMA gym and started calling guys like Jardine a journeyman they would laugh at your face.


Exactly. Guys like Mousasi and Miller are not freaking journeyman what is this forum smoking?

Derrick Krantz and Dakota Cochrane are journeyman. There's a gigantic gap from those two guys and what most would consider a "gatekeeper" so you can't even use the excuse of "oh journeyman and gatekeeper are almost interchangeable"

At no particular point was Jardine believed by any person in particular that he would be champion. The thing is son we are not in any serious boxing gym and we are not in any extra serious anything other rhan internet banter and as far as a journeyman fighter although Jardine was a contender for a very long time in the golden era he will be remembered as that a warrior and contender that nobody expected necessarily to be champ and was not but however was used to both test new talent and contend off the gttiness of his namesake. Being as he was a contender perhaps you feel the word journeyman insulting. I use it on terms of the guy nobody AT ALL expected to win the belt only put on a solid fight. Perhaps you concern about whether I would say this or that in a gym because you are a sensitive little child taking things far too personal. It definitely isn’t because I have any ill words towards Mr. Jardine. You sound gotten too like lil sassy sissy. Stay that way if you choose but don’t do it with me my son. It will only cause you heartache. I don’t give a shit what gym you go to buddy. Try that on for size. What fucking gym do you go to to talk UFC? That just sounds lame. No thank you. My son

 

[syct23]

At no particular point was Jardine believed by any person in particular that he would be champion. The thing is son we are not in any serious boxing gym and we are not in any extra serious anything other rhan internet banter and as far as a journeyman fighter although Jardine was a contender for a very long time in the golden era he will be remembered as that a warrior and contender that nobody expected necessarily to be champ and was not but however was used to both test new talent and contend off the gttiness of his namesake. Being as he was a contender perhaps you feel the word journeyman insulting. I use it on terms of the guy nobody AT ALL expected to win the belt only put on a solid fight. Perhaps you concern about whether I would say this or that in a gym because you are a sensitive little child taking things far too personal. It definitely isn’t because I have any ill words towards Mr. Jardine. You sound gotten too like lil sassy sissy. Stay that way if you choose but don’t do it with me my son. It will only cause you heartache. You’re a Dick Mcdojo and I don’t give a shit what gym you go to buddy. Try that on for size

Calm down,

Minding Yous you are not..

 

[560ti]

At no particular point was Jardine believed by any person in particular that he would be champion.

That doesn't make him a journeyman.

Being as he was a contender perhaps you feel the word journeyman insulting.

If you told a guy who has fought main card on a PPV 8 times (5 of which either main event or co main) a journeyman, then yes that would be mocking the sport and his profession. He would probably laugh it off but doesn't mean your free from ridicule for making a ridiculous claim. Just own up that it was a bad take and learn from it, it's not that difficult.

You sound gotten too like lil sassy sissy. Stay that way if you choose but don’t do it with me my son. It will only cause you heartache. I don’t give a shit what gym you go to buddy. Try that on for size. What fucking gym do you go to to talk UFC? That just sounds lame. No thank you. My son

This is what we call projection. I typed out a less than 200-word response explaining he's not a journeyman and examples of what a journeyman was, and this was your response. Who exactly is the sassy one in this situation? (Like I said earlier, own up to a bad take and move on, trying to claim innocence or projection isn't productive).

 

[mkt]

I don’t think journeyman and gatekeeper are that far apart in definition and they shouldn’t be negative titles. I personally have Jardine over most of who you listed on terms of gatekeeper or journeyman

Well, that doesn't make any sense as Cerrone and Nate fought longer than Jardine and have even more impressive resumes.

 

[Natural Order]

Journeymen typically have overly long careers acting as fodder/gatekeepers for guys looking to break into the Top 10. I don't really know if Keith qualifies in any real sense of the word, but MMA is tough to label in ways of historical boxing.

Fuckin' loved Keith Jardine, such a unique guy all round - sport is missing many Keith Jardine's these days.....

 

[Mind Mine]

Well, that doesn't make any sense as Cerrone and Nate fought longer than Jardine and have even more impressive resumes.

I would have them at the extreme high of the same class I have Jardine in tbh

 

[Mind Mine]

That doesn't make him a journeyman.

If you told a guy who has fought main card on a PPV 8 times (5 of which either main event or co main) a journeyman, then yes that would be mocking the sport and his profession. He would probably laugh it off but doesn't mean your free from ridicule for making a ridiculous claim. Just own up that it was a bad take and learn from it, it's not that difficult.

This is what we call projection. I typed out a less than 200-word response explaining he's not a journeyman and examples of what a journeyman was, and this was your response. Who exactly is the sassy one in this situation? (Like I said earlier, own up to a bad take and move on, trying to claim innocence or projection isn't productive).

You’re a Dick Mcdojo. The first sign of being gotten too is the whole if you went or go to said gym blah blah blah. No bozo at no gym that I have ever trained at do we discuss pro sports only train. So you come across really goofy and sassy there. For another every post I type is catered to a sherdog audience whom many are dumb enough to think Jardine sucks, Sometimes we choose our verbiage to bring the maximum amount of people to discuss these legends and create contexts that cause agreement and disagreement for the sake of mma discussion. You couldn’t keep it there you worry about what I would do or say in a gym. You’re in my web my son. Bow let a master work

 

[560ti]

Journeymen typically have overly long careers acting as fodder/gatekeepers for guys looking to break into the Top 10. I don't really know if Keith qualifies in any real sense of the word, but MMA is tough to label in ways of historical boxing.

Fuckin' loved Keith Jardine, such a unique guy all round - sport is missing many Keith Jardine's these days.....

Journeyman historically are known as just really good regional/ tier 2 level guys. Usually fight in a ton of different promotions and don't really have a direct career path. Usually you like them to test/weed out rising prospects or match them up against former tier 1 guys that are on the downward portion of their careers but still want some fights without being fed to the sharks.

Guys like Tony Lopez and Dakota Cochrane are journeyman. Majority of the guys that have been listed in this thread are like fringe hall of famers or guys that have fought for a world title so not even close.

Some have mixed the word gatekeeper with journeyman. If you mix the two then you could say journeyman are the gatekeepers of the regional scene.

 

[Lawrence]

I didn’t see Chris the Crippler mentioned.

Journeyman or Gatekeeper ? I dunno.

But he has some great scalps and never let us fans down as far as violence goes.

 

[Here's Johnny!]

A journeyman isn’t just someone who fought in several orgs, it’s someone who is decent in their sport but not outstanding. Mousasi won championships in 4 different orgs, he’s not remotely close to being a journeyman.

Cinderella man was a Journeyman but unlike Gegard he won the number 1 belt in the world

 

[mkt]

Journeyman historically are known as just really good regional/ tier 2 level guys. Usually fight in a ton of different promotions and don't really have a direct career path. Usually you like them to test/weed out rising prospects or match them up against former tier 1 guys that are on the downward portion of their careers but still want some fights without being fed to the sharks.

Guys like Tony Lopez and Dakota Cochrane are journeyman. Majority of the guys that have been listed in this thread are like fringe hall of famers or guys that have fought for a world title so not even close.

Some have mixed the word gatekeeper with journeyman. If you mix the two then you could say journeyman are the gatekeepers of the regional scene.

Jeremy Horn was kind of a weird hybrid of what you and TS are talking about. 120 fights, mostly in smaller orgs. Yet he fought a bunch of big names from multiple generations and weight classes. He fought most of the better opponents in the UFC, Rings, etc. He even fought Tony Lopez late in his career.

 

[bobafett]

Trolls on sherdog nowadays suck compared to the old ones

 

[560ti]

Calm down,

Minding Yous you are not..

Tells me to calm down yet he's the one whose going on multiple tirades and ends up on dubs the next day. Gotta love it, classic Sherdog

Jeremy Horn was kind of a weird hybrid of what you and TS are talking about. 120 fights, mostly in smaller orgs. Yet he fought a bunch of big names from multiple generations and weight classes. He fought most of the better opponents in the UFC, Rings, etc. He even fought Tony Lopez late in his career.

Yes Horn was interesting because the MMA landscape was so much different back then. Majority of the tier 1 205ers were fighting overseas + the UFC had very few events so these good tier 2 promotion guys were in a lot of cases viewed as potential belt contenders especially if they could fight on shorter notice.

 

[JBJ was here]

Yes it does, it's the MOAT, the middest of all time.

If only. A journeyman is someone who's always good enough to find work but never worth paying more than the next rando who's good enough to find work, so they bounce from place to place or stick around forever making the bare minimum. That makes "best journeyman" more like the most replacement-level of all time, which is really rather silly.

 

[josh345]

Just two off the top of my head at LW

JIM MILLER with wins over:
Cerrone (sub)
Guida (sub)
Thiago Alves (UD)
Lauzon X2
Gomi (TKO)
Guillard (sub)
Charles Oliviera (sub)
Tibau (UD)

MICHAEL JOHNSON with wins over:
Poirier (KO)
Barboza (UD)
Guillard (UD)
Tibau (KO)
Lauzon (UD)
Prime Tony (UD)

I bet there's plenty more guys that have an amazing resume without ever getting top 5 status or a title shot.

Of course it ultimately depends on your definition of "journeyman" though. I would list the above more as "GGOAT" for gatekeepers

How the hell did miller beat alves!! That seems like a terrible match up. Good for him! Some nice wins.

Michael Johnson has the talent to be a champ but it just didn't happen.