If wolves were introduced into Africa.

siberian tiger way scarier than lion fam
I try and stay out of the hypothetical Lion vs Tiger discussions (other than dropping snarky one liners here and there), something about it just seems distasteful. But forums are for sharing information so here goes... nearly every person that has actually worked with both in mixed company (lions and tigers together) claims the lion reigns supreme. Clyde Beatty (a famous big cat tamer) claims to have never lost a lion to a tiger, but lost 25 tigers to lion attacks throughout the years (only two being Siberian tigers, the others Bengals). Other big cat tamers/trainers have claimed similar experiences, with tigers killing lions being a very rare thing. Tigers look dominant in short tussles when paws are flying but when it comes to blood, the lion is almost always the victor. This was shocking to me, as I always favored tigers as a younger man. But the accounts from folks that have witnessed countless fights between the two tell a similar story. There is an old story in Popular Mechanics from Clyde Beatty where he goes into great detail about the interactions of Lions and Tigers he witnessed in his years as a tamer. It would likely change your perspective of which big cat is the better fighter as a general rule.
 
They didn't evolve for the Savannah.
 
Wolves would do just fine with big pack numbers. Especially if we are talking about the biggest Alpha Wolves and assuming climate did not bother them, They would be right below the Lion Pride and above Hyena's generally.

Wolves are one of the most strategic and coordinated fighting packs. Intelligent fighters. Hyenas are generally scavengers and opportunistic hunters when they have a massive advantage in numbers when it comes to conflict with other predators. They would mostly avoid Wolves where possible.
 
They'd be in a competing niche as Wild Dogs.

Just realized everyone else already said that.
 
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For real though here is a special aboutAfrican wolves.

lol the dolphin has on gladiator sandals.
 
This. Wolves are a bigger, stronger, version of the dogs Africa already has. They would likely replace them on the food chain.
This is so wrong, African wild dogs are much better hunters than wolves. Plus the comparison is moot point since they don’t inhabit remotely the same ecosystems.
 
I try and stay out of the hypothetical Lion vs Tiger discussions (other than dropping snarky one liners here and there), something about it just seems distasteful. But forums are for sharing information so here goes... nearly every person that has actually worked with both in mixed company (lions and tigers together) claims the lion reigns supreme. Clyde Beatty (a famous big cat tamer) claims to have never lost a lion to a tiger, but lost 25 tigers to lion attacks throughout the years (only two being Siberian tigers, the others Bengals). Other big cat tamers/trainers have claimed similar experiences, with tigers killing lions being a very rare thing. Tigers look dominant in short tussles when paws are flying but when it comes to blood, the lion is almost always the victor. This was shocking to me, as I always favored tigers as a younger man. But the accounts from folks that have witnessed countless fights between the two tell a similar story. There is an old story in Popular Mechanics from Clyde Beatty where he goes into great detail about the interactions of Lions and Tigers he witnessed in his years as a tamer. It would likely change your perspective of which big cat is the better fighter as a general rule.
very informative post. thank you. i jut assumed since a siberian tiger weighs far more than a lion that the size discrepancy would be too much for a lion to overcome. Guess i'm wrong about that. wonder what it is that makes lions deadlier.
 
Between lions,hyenas, hunting dogs, crocodiles, and the heat don't think they would fare well.
 
very informative post. thank you. i jut assumed since a siberian tiger weighs far more than a lion that the size discrepancy would be too much for a lion to overcome. Guess i'm wrong about that. wonder what it is that makes lions deadlier.
I would imagine at least some of it comes from the social structure and dependence on fighting ability of male lions to survive. I think we all know by now male lions don’t just lay around waiting for the females to make a kill. They actively patrol their territory for other males, and fight them (often to the death) when encountered. Tigers will fight when they have to, Lions will fight because it’s their nature. Tigers are more naturally skittish. As to the physical aspects...where Tigers are sleek and stealthy, Lions are bold and sturdy. Their mane makes it hard to grasp the throat, especially in a frantic fight as opposed to an ambush kill on their prey. Tigers will use their paws a lot in territorial scraps, swiping like a skilled striker. Lions tend to use their paws only to topple the other animal, think of it like a wrestler vs striker. Lions are front heavy, you will almost never see them raise up and swipe like a tiger tends to do (they aren’t physically structured for such an attack and it would leave them off balance). Beatty claims he had a male Lion named Sultan the First that terrified and had gained the submission of all the Tigers it shared the cage with. Crazy shit to share a cage with dozens of big cats, with fights breaking out regularly. I can think of thousands of ways I’d rather go than getting caught in the middle of a scrap between two animals I have zero chance of defeating.
 
I would imagine at least some of it comes from the social structure and dependence on fighting ability of male lions to survive. I think we all know by now male lions don’t just lay around waiting for the females to make a kill. They actively patrol their territory for other males, and fight them (often to the death) when encountered. Tigers will fight when they have to, Lions will fight because it’s their nature. Tigers are more naturally skittish. As to the physical aspects...where Tigers are sleek and stealthy, Lions are bold and sturdy. Their mane makes it hard to grasp the throat, especially in a frantic fight as opposed to an ambush kill on their prey. Tigers will use their paws a lot in territorial scraps, swiping like a skilled striker. Lions tend to use their paws only to topple the other animal, think of it like a wrestler vs striker. Lions are front heavy, you will almost never see them raise up and swipe like a tiger tends to do (they aren’t physically structured for such an attack and it would leave them off balance). Beatty claims he had a male Lion named Sultan the First that terrified and had gained the submission of all the Tigers it shared the cage with. Crazy shit to share a cage with dozens of big cats, with fights breaking out regularly. I can think of thousands of ways I’d rather go than getting caught in the middle of a scrap between two animals I have zero chance of defeating.

Do you have a link to these stories by this Beatty dude? Sounds incredibly interesting.
 
Do you have a link to these stories by this Beatty dude? Sounds incredibly interesting.
I will take a look. I’m sure I can find something worthwhile. I’ll edit this post with the information when I find it.

*Edit
Some notable quotes first...
Alan Gold said:
Instinct is telling tigers they want nothing to do with lions. The cats are so afraid the lions are going to jump down on their backs.

Dave Hoover said:
I have to keep the male Lions from killing each other. I have to keep them from killing the Tigers (Lions are better fighters, I have lost Tigers) and I have to keep them both from killing me.

Dave Hoover said:
Lions are more aggressive than Tigers, contrary to what people think. Sometimes you’ll have a lion eating a tiger, and I say that’s bad economics.

Dave Hoover said:
Lions, in most cases, kill the Tigers. You have to protect the tigers from the lions.

In reference to the long fight in the movie The Big Cage
Clyde Beatty said:
We had to use 3 tigers. The lion killed the first two so quickly that we didn’t have enough footage.


There are also quite a few testimonials that in the Korean fighting pits of the 60s lions routinely killed the tigers.

A link to the Beatty article...
http://wildanimalelite.board-directory.net/t10-clyde-beattys-words-on-lions-vs-tigers
 
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This is so wrong, African wild dogs are much better hunters than wolves. Plus the comparison is moot point since they don’t inhabit remotely the same ecosystems.

Yes, I'm aware they have an 80% kill rate and endurance for days. But under the assumption that somehow gray wolves would not be affected by the climate(which is a bit absurd to begin with), they would be in direct competition with painted dogs. Not only would there be more prey for the wolves than in northern climates, but I dont see what would stop them from bullying the shit out of painted dogs, stealing their kills at will, etc. And again, this is in some fantasy world where gray wolves would be as well-suited for the Savanah as they are the Canadian Rockies.
 
I dunno bro, they used to say the same thing about blacks and whites and thats working pretty well nowadays.
Same species.

Hyenas are more closely related to cats, believe it or not.
 
There are wild dogs in Africa.

If wolves could adapt to the climate they would probably replace them.

African wild dogs have the highest hunting success rate in Africa.

They have an astonishing 80% success rate in hunts. Lions hover around 30%. North American wolves are at an abysmal 14%.

lol@wolves replacing the GOATs.
 
I try and stay out of the hypothetical Lion vs Tiger discussions (other than dropping snarky one liners here and there), something about it just seems distasteful. But forums are for sharing information so here goes... nearly every person that has actually worked with both in mixed company (lions and tigers together) claims the lion reigns supreme. Clyde Beatty (a famous big cat tamer) claims to have never lost a lion to a tiger, but lost 25 tigers to lion attacks throughout the years (only two being Siberian tigers, the others Bengals). Other big cat tamers/trainers have claimed similar experiences, with tigers killing lions being a very rare thing. Tigers look dominant in short tussles when paws are flying but when it comes to blood, the lion is almost always the victor. This was shocking to me, as I always favored tigers as a younger man. But the accounts from folks that have witnessed countless fights between the two tell a similar story. There is an old story in Popular Mechanics from Clyde Beatty where he goes into great detail about the interactions of Lions and Tigers he witnessed in his years as a tamer. It would likely change your perspective of which big cat is the better fighter as a general rule.

plenty pro lion and pro tiger stuff out there to go around in circles, two awesome big cats in their own right

one paper/ tale of the tape, its a hands down tiger win, short odds with the Vegas bookies, but the mane is a massive plus for a lion
 
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