If we're headed for regime change in Iran, get ready for a military draft. We'll need one

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If we're headed for regime change in Iran, get ready for a military draft. We'll need one

With U.S. withdrawal from the Iran nuclear deal, the installation of John Bolton as national security adviser, new sanctions and demandson Iran and a White House that appears committed to doing the heavy lifting for our friends and allies, regime change in Iran may well be back on the menu.

Should a serious public relations campaign for regime change begin, we will assuredly hear some familiar songs: the mullahs’ theocracy is weak and will swiftly collapse; our “man in Tehran” will be embraced by the people; the war will practically pay for itself; and most important, we won’t need to put any American “boots on the ground

All of these claims should be treated with enormous skepticism, but the last one is the most dubious.


We have seen for decades that American air power alone is insufficient to topple a government, whether it be Hitler’s Germany, Ho Chi Minh’s Vietnam or Saddam’s Iraq. (Bolton’s predecessor, Lt. Gen. H. R. McMaster, dubbed this idea “the vampire fallacy”). Our Sunni Arab allies are stalemated in Yemen and distinctly averse to sending troops to Syria. The idea that they would invade or occupy Iran is risible. The Washington regime change crowd’s preferred Iranian proxy is a hated cult called Mujahideen-e Khalq.

But if the mullahs are to be overthrown, it will be by American soldiers and Marines. Even if the Islamic Republic were to somehow collapse on its own, concerns about radiological material, the security of the Strait of Hormuz or another massive wave of refugees would probably drive the U.S.to intervene with ground troops.


U.S. politicians and generals sometimes like to point out that the volunteer military has successfully endured a decade and a half of sustained combat and a ceaseless cycle of deployments. This is not the whole story.

Despite the enormous amount of money expended there, Iraq was by historical measures a low-intensity war. Total combat deaths for American forces over eight years were about the size of a brigade, and losses in Afghanistan roughly half that. Yet a modest increase in force structure required the military to greatly lower its standards, doubling felony waivers for Army recruits from 2003 to 2006, for instance.

A massive increase in the use of civilian contractors (more than 50 times the ratio in Vietnam) also hid the volunteer system's cracks. The All-Volunteer Force was barely able to sustain two large, but low-casualty, campaigns — neither of which has resulted in anything resembling a U.S. strategic victory.

Occupying Iran would be a challenge of an entirely different magnitude than Iraq or Afghanistan. The Islamic Republic has a population of 80 million people — more than double that of either of its war-torn neighbors. However, it shares the ethnic diversity of those neighbors: only 61% of Iranians are Persian. This has caused some hawks to salivate, but it should instead provide another strong warning about the second- and third-order effects of regime change in Iran. As in Iraq and Afghanistan, removing Iran’s government could unleash the furies of sectarianism and communal strife. The odds are exceedingly low that U.S. troops will be “greeted as liberators.”

Iran’s geography is equally daunting. At 636,000 square miles, it is effectively the size of Western Europe. Ringed by mountains, ocean, and swamp, Iran is a fortress. Most of its population lives in the mountains; the lowland salt flats and deserts are largely uninhabitable. American forces, dependent on motorized and aerial movement and supply, are particularly ill equipped to handle Iran’s military geography.

The force with which we would occupy Iran is also not as resilient as most Americans probably think. Even now, in a time when most troops are not seeing direct combat, the the volunteer force is struggling just to maintain numbers and standards. The Air Force, Marine Corps, and Navy are each short of a full quarter of their required fighter pilots. The Army recently announced that it is already 12,000 recruits behind on its recruiting goal for 2018 and will not make mission.


https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.usatoday.com/amp/656240002


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I have been saying some very similiar things about Iran.

People should really read this article. It goes over many of the reasons a war with Iran is likely to end in a disasterous quagmire worse than Iraq.


Discuss.........
 
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We'll relentlessly bomb them from the air and back a bunch of anti-regime groups like MEK.

I'm not in favour if this by the way, just pointing out that regime change doesn't necessarily require troops. It probably wouldn't work but I can see Trump giving it a go.
 
Nah - I think days of nation building are over. Now we just use proxies and air power. See Libya and Syria. We are training MEK and other proxy armies though for IRAN.

Problem is we got Taliban in Afghanistan after we trained those Jihadis in Operation Cyclone. We got ISIS and other terrorists ruling parts of Libya. MEK might be worse. lol
 
Nah - I think days of nation building are over. Now we just use proxies and air power. See Libya and Syria. We are training MEK and other proxy armies though for IRAN.

Problem is we got Taliban in Afghanistan after we trained those Jihadis in Operation Cyclone. We got ISIS and other terrorists ruling parts of Libya. MEK might be worse. lol

I don't think Iran is a tribal society from a 1000 years ago like Afghanistan, or ran by corrupt, incompetent leadership like Lybia or Iraq.

I think Iran is far more capable then Syria, and look how that has turned out using air, and mercenaries.

They could try to do this in Iran for sure, and I have little doubt that the Iranian regime would still be standing after a failed attempt.
 
USA invading Iran would trigger a whrilwind of shitstorm so big its gonna make 911 look like a highschool shooting...
 
The draft is never coming back my friend. If we managed to fight two wars (Iraq and Afghanistan) for years with only a volunteer Army (military), we can manage to fight Iran without the draft. Iran is not going to do anything. It is like North Korea, all 'bark' and no 'bite'. The U.S. is certainly not going to be sending troops to Iran. I think we learned our lesson in Iraq and Afghanistan, the hard way.
 
If they thought invading Iran was a good idea they would have done so by now. Invading Iran would be a terrible idea . They already put the wheels in motion with the U.S.,France and other EU states funding "moderate" terrorism for 7+years in Syria. Now the Shia are back in control of Iraq and Assad is still in power. With Russia backing Assad it's a strategic stalemate. If you look at it strategically they would have to destabilize Russia first before they can attack Iran successfully. Which is exactly what they tried and failed to do now if they want to get really desperate they can but it will only expose them more.

What realistically would happen would be a false flag of some sort which would invoke a response by Iran's local enemies (Saudi Arabia, Israel)
 
The Army recently announced that it is already 12,000 recruits behind on its recruiting goal for 2018 and will not make mission.

That is a small number. Have DoD increase bonuses and pay. We have been down this road before...

Remember 'blue-to-green' in 2005? Bodies from the Navy and Air Force switching to the Army for extra pay.
 
The draft is never coming back my friend. If we managed to fight two wars (Iraq and Afghanistan) for years with only a volunteer Army (military), we can manage to fight Iran without the draft. Iran is not going to do anything. It is like North Korea, all 'bark' and no 'bite'. The U.S. is certainly not going to be sending troops to Iran. I think we learned our lesson in Iraq and Afghanistan, the hard way.

Honest question for you. Why leave the Iran deal, knowing Europe isn't going to go along, making the strategy of containment almost toothless, if the plan isn't to go to war with them?
 
We will only attack Iran when Israel or The House of Saud tells us too.
 
All the way back in September 10, 2001 Iran was quite nicely contained, funny how things turned around.
 
All the way back in September 10, 2001 Iran was quite nicely contained, funny how things turned around.

All the way back on September 11th, 2001 the majority of those responsible were Saudi.
 
Is it that time in the decade again to talk about wars and drafts? I remember after 9/11 the talk was about a draft.
 
I don't think Iran is a tribal society from a 1000 years ago like Afghanistan, or ran by corrupt, incompetent leadership like Lybia or Iraq.

I think Iran is far more capable then Syria, and look how that has turned out using air, and mercenaries.

They could try to do this in Iran for sure, and I have little doubt that the Iranian regime would still be standing after a failed attempt.
The intervention in Syria has been successful for the Americans. Not from a humanitarian point of view, of course, but Northern Syria is completely under american friendly troops. And Assad wasn't attacked properly from the air.
If Obama had attacked he would have fallen, american airstrikes would probably ruin Iran too. I think the leadership would survive but they would lose huge parts of their territory to militia groups and would be severely weakened.
 
The intervention in Syria has been successful for the Americans. Not from a humanitarian point of view, of course, but Northern Syria is completely under american friendly troops. And Assad wasn't attacked properly from the air.
If Obama had attacked he would have fallen, american airstrikes would probably ruin Iran too. I think the leadership would survive but they would lose huge parts of their territory to militia groups and would be severely weakened.

Syrian kurdsitan exists now and shows no sign of disapearing as long as US military remains there with air support, troop support. Iraq kurdistan also exists Kurdistan will i think one day have a state the big issue is Turkey. The US as much hypocritical as they can be is still in fake friendship with Turks. But really i wonder how much longer turkey be in nato.

1) Yep but I think Persians are actually 61% or 60% as that map i posted says. But yeah 8 to 9% of Iran is Sunni or maybe more there birthrate is highest concentrated in the west mainly in Iranian kurdistan area and south near Pakistan and they would no doubt support pakistan over Iran and that region Balochistan is entirely sunni and close to Pakistan. The Kurds are also 10% of Iran population and are entirely sunni last i checked and neighbor neighboring Kurdistan in Iraq. There is no way that the US should not exploit that advantage and create greater kurdistan in northern syria, iraq, and Iran. The only regions i see breaking away are the Kurdish and balochistan region. Balochis are 2% to 3% of iran population but populate the large unpopulated area of balochistan if they start being slaughtered by iranians then no doubt pakistan would jump to save them and Iran cannot take down pakistan especially when pakistan will be supported by the Arab world and US & UK. Iranian kurdistan is separated from the rest of kurdistan layers of fence, mines, and ditches that Iran built during the war with Iraq but that can be torn down if iran is in chaos. I dont think a southern azerbaijan will ever go that far let alone touch Tehran which is the white triangle circle shaped thing. With that said Azeri iranians are 16% of population but are mostly all shiite so if they place their ethnic tribe idenity above religion that is only way i can see them wanting to unite with Azerbaijan but even then azerbaijan are sunnis and so are fellow turkic speakers the Turks.

Bernard-Lewis-Plan-2011.jpg



2) Yeah the Iraq war had opposition from the Arab and sunni world. I dont think the saudis cared but they could not publically support that war or even really that covertly it just looks bad for the leader of Arab world and sunni world in egypt or saudi arabia to help destroy another sunni led country even though Iraq is majority shiite in many areas it had sunni dictator in saddam.

With this

the muslim world iran in red who will help them?? beside syria? there will be uprising in bahrain with shiite majority but sunni ruling minority and parts of yemen like there is already but all other countries with sizable shiite populations are ruined or torn apart, Iraq, syria, yemen, soon to be lebanon since lebanon is now controlled by hezbollah which tries to destroy israel but will be taken out next war.

I just dont see how much the EU can do to help they will be neutral my guess but UK will side with US and the arab world is 17 countries strong if you dont count syria, yemen, lebanon, palestine, iraq. And 350 million people strong with $2.5 trillion GDP and control huge amount of oil and gas in world. Iran would need Russia or china or both to attack the US and help them other they gone but i dont think iran and china will do that and also against against the larger muslim world, arab world, especially since last i checked Russia is now doing deals with saudis and qatar and china would not hurt other muslim countries just to help iran.

1_Islam_by_country_M_edit_engl.jpg


1200px-Arab_Iran_Locator.png



3) I think at some point numbers do matter. it dont matter how good iranian army is when 10% of population is sunni and the kurds and paksitani groups control large areas of the country and will get help from their brothers and US you screwed. How many soldiers you think it will take to capture tehran and overthrow government?
 
I don't think Iran is a tribal society from a 1000 years ago like Afghanistan, or ran by corrupt, incompetent leadership like Lybia or Iraq.

I think Iran is far more capable then Syria, and look how that has turned out using air, and mercenaries.

They could try to do this in Iran for sure, and I have little doubt that the Iranian regime would still be standing after a failed attempt.

US has likely gotten a lot stronger. is my guess. I think they will succeed in any regime change effort but the big winner will be china and especially Russia. I just cannot see even liberated iranians who happy regime is gone wanting to embrace USA for destroying their country. They will go to Russia and russia will have Iran in eurasian union as a russian bitch in no time and they will also become a chinese pawn.
 
going it alone in iran sounds like a wise maneuver that would have no long term repercussions
 
The intervention in Syria has been successful for the Americans. Not from a humanitarian point of view, of course, but Northern Syria is completely under american friendly troops. And Assad wasn't attacked properly from the air.
If Obama had attacked he would have fallen, american airstrikes would probably ruin Iran too. I think the leadership would survive but they would lose huge parts of their territory to militia groups and would be severely weakened.

I disagree strongly. Syria now has Russian bases in it. The war has given Iran the excuse to open a Persian corridor from Iran to Lebanon.
 
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