Television If Punisher and Batman were to trade places for a month, Batman would have a crisis

[mixmastermo]

Think about it. Punisher works out of New York City, a very big important place in the Marvel Universe where many heroes, superhero teams, and villains reside and operate. It has been the epicenter of many wars and invasions. Punisher sticks to the street level due to his personal war, doesn't get involved with the bigger stuff unless asked- he stays in his lane so to speak.

Batman works out of Gotham where pretty much all incidents are at the street level. He is on an endless crusade to clean up the city, with limited success.

Put Batman in NYC for a month and at best he'd help in taking guys like Kingpin down. He might team up with Avengers or Fantastic Four if needed, but he isn't gonna do a damn thing to help clean up the city in a month alone- way too much going on in NYC.

Put Punisher in Gotham for a month and he'll murder the Joker, Penguin, Black Mask, Hush, Two Face, Riddler, Bane, etc. in a matter of days. He'll let himself get caught and put into Arkham Asylum, and he'll continue his mission to take out whoever is in there.

Put both men back in their homes after a month, Punisher will feel some sense of relief because he at least managed to clean one city up. He'll be inspired to take his war to the next level.

Batman however, will come back to a clean Gotham city. He will have become obsolete and he will fall into an existential crisis.

The best he could do is head over to Bludhaven and clean up after Nightwing.

@toasty need your input here

 

[clutchCAT420]

You underestimate The Joker. Hell have that CAN cop laughing his gas on the first encounter. No way punisher even gets close to taking out Bane too.

 

[mixmastermo]

You underestimate The Joker. Hell have that CAN cop laughing his gas on the first encounter. No way punisher even gets close to taking out Bane too.

I think you are underestimating Punisher sir

 

[Kowboy On Sherdog]

Batman went to private school and Punisher is from the streets...

 

[clutchCAT420]

I think you are underestimating Punisher sir

 

[ScarfaceJr]

is this your attempt to convince us Punisher > Batman?
I mean you're well within your right think that, even as wrong as it is.

The worst Robin (Damian) > Punisher.

 

[mixmastermo]

is this your attempt to convince us Punisher > Batman?
I mean you're well within your right think that, even as wrong as it is.

The worst Robin (Damian) > Punisher.

Nope. Not saying that at all.

What I am saying is relative to Marvel's NYC, Gotham is full of street level cans that Punisher would murder in a heartbeat. Batman prohibits other heroes from coming to Gotham so he can work on his terms.

Marvels NYC is too big to manage on his own, so he stays in his lane there, and even then he respects other heroes too much to step on their toes. He respects Daredevil so he won't murder his villains. Same for Spiderman, Captain America, etc.

Put him in Gotham where he has no such relationships with anyone and he immediately gets to work on cleaning up the crime in the city, for good.

 

[Thrawn33]

Put Batman in NYC for a month and at best he'd help in taking guys like Kingpin down. He might team up with Avengers or Fantastic Four if needed, but he isn't gonna do a damn thing to help clean up the city in a month alone- way too much going on in NYC.

Put Punisher in Gotham for a month and he'll murder the Joker, Penguin, Black Mask, Hush, Two Face, Riddler, Bane, etc. in a matter of days. He'll let himself get caught and put into Arkham Asylum, and he'll continue his mission to take out whoever is in there.

Bats and Daredevil would be best buddies for sure. Probably Captain America too.

I also thought about what would happen if you let the Punisher loose in Gotham, and it's pretty much as you said.

All them criminals who take advantage of Bat's "no kill" rule are in for a rude suprise when they catch a bullet or two hundred.

And yes Arkham would be Frank's own Disneyland. All kinds of flavors of scum for him to kill. I can imagine him killing his way down each corridor cell by cell, his inner monologe going something like:

"At any given time this place is home to Gothams most evil, insane and disgusting individuals...Right here, in this one place, don't have to waste a second tracking them down... And the second one escapes, dies or is 'rehabilitated' they are replaced with another just like them....I should come here every weekend"

 

[mixmastermo]

Bats and Daredevil would be best buddies for sure. Probably Captain America too.

I also thought about what would happen if you let the Punisher loose in Gotham, and it's pretty much as you said.

All them criminals who take advantage of Bat's "no kill" rule are in for a rude suprise when they catch a bullet or two hundred.

And yes Arkham would be Frank's own Disneyland. All kinds of flavors of scum for him to kill. I can imagine him killing his way down each corridor cell by cell, his inner monologe going something like:

"At any given time this place is home to Gothams most evil, insane and disgusting individuals...Right here, in this one place, don't have to waste a second tracking them down... And the second one escapes, dies or is 'rehabilitated' they are replaced with another just like them....I should come here every weekend"

This guy gets it.

 

[supermurph]

Never was a heavy comic book guy, so in the style of a youtube CT expert, I’m gonna give my uneducated opinion simply based on how I feel. Batman is a villain as much as the rest in Gotham. He may even be worse, all things considered. I agree that Frank Castle being dropped into his backyard would lift the veil as to what is really holding Gotham back.

Bruce Wayne is your typical big business, profit above all else, sociopath who operates to build as much wealth as possible while the people feed his savior complex when he runs his vigilante missions at night. Don’t let the “my parents were gunned down so I’m anti-murder” shit fool you. Batman has made a mint from Gotham, and no matter what he does, things seem to perpetually stay at shithole levels. Why? Because similar to a pharmaceutical company curing something, much greater profit to be had in managing it at a borderline stable level. Wayne enterprises holds very profitable stakes in hospitals, banks, construction, media, care facilities, pharmaceuticals, for profit prisons / insane asylums, and security / police related equip and training. If he eradicates the problem, then no more profit. This is why Mr. anti-murder has no issue with breaking bones and sending people to lengthy hospital stays for things up to and including paralysis…..just don’t kill them because then there’s no way to milk a dead cow. Imagine the bill the city gets stuck with from his actions, and Wayne corp. is tapping into the tax revenue to profit heavily. Hospitalizations, rehab, loans, rebuilds, drugs, and simple PB&J prison lunches are being charged to the city at a highly inflated value which leads to more money in the pockets of the Batman. The city wage tax must be something like 25% to pay for his never ending scam. The Punisher would probably light his ass up 1st and rightfully so.

 

[ScarfaceJr]

Nope. Not saying that at all.

What I am saying is relative to Marvel's NYC, Gotham is full of street level cans that Punisher would murder in a heartbeat. Batman prohibits other heroes from coming to Gotham so he can work on his terms.

Marvels NYC is too big to manage on his own, so he stays in his lane there, and even then he respects other heroes too much to step on their toes. He respects Daredevil so he won't murder his villains. Same for Spiderman, Captain America, etc.

Put him in Gotham where he has no such relationships with anyone and he immediately gets to work on cleaning up the crime in the city, for good.

My bad then.

Well yea, Gotham's threats are mostly street level with only a couple of villains being capable of being threats beyond Gotham.

 

[moreorless87]

The Punisher seems to have become a right wing bro power fantasy.

 

[Osculater]

The Punisher and The Red Hood team up and take out the trash permanently

 

[Fedorgasm]

Some of Batman's enemies are pretty high level for the punisher. Batman fights dudes who are immortal and use magic n shit.

Batman's intellect is much higher than Frank's as well. It would be a fun crossover because I think Frank would struggle, which actually makes it more interesting.

 

[Joe_Armstrong]

I have this old comic where Punisher infltrates a Motor Club for meth.
Great story

But how about if Homelander and Superman traded places ?

 

[toasty]

This has already happened and @Fedorgasm is right, Batman's fighting skills and intellect crush the Punisher one on one.....

But your not str8 geeking who would win in a fight. You're talking methodology and ethics questions and I'd have to say are correct. Frank would have an easier time cleaning up gotham with his ends justifies the means lack of morality. Frank wiping out Arkham cell by Cell would be some of the greatest panels ever drawn if done right.

Oh and @supermurph I completely reject your big pharma conspiracy theory regarding Bruce Wayne's fortunes. He would be 7000x's wealthier and way less bruised and injured if gotham was a crime free paradise. Wayne industries would be bigger than apple, tesla, nvidia, Truth Social and Toasty Poasty Inc. combined in a pristine shiny city. i mean it has to be hard to recruit and retain major tech talent in a city full of poison ivies and penguins killing people for fun, right?

All of this brings us to the question who is the more ethical super hero. On its' face that is easy, Batman right? But let's just take one villain, the Joker, how many times has he been captured and put away only to escape? how many people has he killed, injured, crippled, or orphaned and widowed? Including at least 1 robin. Wouldn't all those innocent lives have been spared if after his first attack on gotham, Frank Castle put a flaming hot RPG through that big ass grin? So, I'd argue, when it comes to the kill or no kill mass murdering pyschotic super villains who are sure to escape endlessly and kill again, that the Punisher killing them puts him on higher moral grounds, than Batman beating them senseless and then effectively turning them loose multiple times.

Lastly, Damian Wayne is by far the most interesting and best Robin for conflict and quotes. Making him the son of Talia and Bruce throws in so many layers of depth that all previous robins were lacking.



Now @mixmastermo you owe me 1 haiku in my UFC discussion Haiku Master dominates the UFC for invoking my name and demanding this post. It can be about anything UFC related past or present but it has to be 5 7 5 baby

EDIT @mixmastermo is an honorable man with no debt to Toasty furthermore

 

[Brofessor]

If Punisher kills criminals, then how come there are so many criminals left in his city?

 

[Osculater]

If Punisher kills criminals, then how come there are so many criminals left in his city?

Liberals!

 

[Adamant]

Think about it. Punisher works out of New York City, a very big important place in the Marvel Universe where many heroes, superhero teams, and villains reside and operate. It has been the epicenter of many wars and invasions. Punisher sticks to the street level due to his personal war, doesn't get involved with the bigger stuff unless asked- he stays in his lane so to speak.

Batman works out of Gotham where pretty much all incidents are at the street level. He is on an endless crusade to clean up the city, with limited success.

Put Batman in NYC for a month and at best he'd help in taking guys like Kingpin down. He might team up with Avengers or Fantastic Four if needed, but he isn't gonna do a damn thing to help clean up the city in a month alone- way too much going on in NYC.

Put Punisher in Gotham for a month and he'll murder the Joker, Penguin, Black Mask, Hush, Two Face, Riddler, Bane, etc. in a matter of days. He'll let himself get caught and put into Arkham Asylum, and he'll continue his mission to take out whoever is in there.

Put both men back in their homes after a month, Punisher will feel some sense of relief because he at least managed to clean one city up. He'll be inspired to take his war to the next level.

Batman however, will come back to a clean Gotham city. He will have become obsolete and he will fall into an existential crisis.

The best he could do is head over to Bludhaven and clean up after Nightwing.

@toasty need your input here

Ok but my question then is, why doesn't he just do that in NYC? And if he does, why doesn't it work (to permanently clean up crime)?

 

[method115]

I think you are underestimating Punisher sir

This is the thing about marvel comics. The hero can be as strong as they want them to be. I read one where the hulk essentially took over earth.