If NFL is A level athleticism

[KeyboardFighter]

I never called you ignorant. You said yourself you really don't know much about the sports and don't care. I accepted what you told me.

So I can tell you more about the sport but you have to be willing to listen. The sport itself is taxing already because it is a full speed sport. But There are also certain teams and certain times in the game where the game is played at a different tempo. Certain teams do it for a strategic advantage and but most teams will bring it out in order to preserve time and overcome a point deficits. It is called the no Huddle Offense. That means teams will not huddle between downs, they will hustle to the line and run plays without rest. Consistent play, at full speed. So as a Wide receiver or Running back, that means running routes full speed then coming back to the line to do it all over again as quickly as possible. For Cornerbacks and safeties, that means trailing wider receivers if it is man coverage. For a defensive end, that means consistently rushing the passer against a much larger lineman stronger lineman. I would put the conditioning of NFL Wide Receivers and Cornerbacks up with Anyone in Rugby. All they do is run full speed sprints the entire game.

I appreciate you trying to educate me but where going nowhere here and getting lost in the details. The only point we non Americans sport fans is trying to make is that athletes in NFL aren't super humans. No doubt they are athletic but so are alot of other sports athletes. You are coming off delusional and borderline religous to us. You may not notice because of your insular ways, but we are here to point it out for you. I mean I actualy had to convince people here that Usain Bolt is faster than anyone in the NFL. I mean Jesus H Christ, thats peak delusion.

 

[Riot Punch]

Lol at the per capita arguments. A lot of the sports in the olympics shouldn’t even count.

 

[AdamantiumPimmel]

NFL is D level confirmed.

 

[KeyboardFighter]

 

[TRYHARD 2001]

Yes, but it also heavily emphasizes raw size and strength due to the pauses in the action, allowing for a totally different cardio footprint and athletic model (ie, there few if any Pacific Islanders in the NBA whereas there are fucktons in the NFL due to their body types and genetics)

The A level genetics that will dominate MMA is when high level NBA-type blacks start getting into it as full natives. who somehow wandered into a bad-neighborhood gym at age 11, are 'saved from the streets due to MMA" and grow to 6'7, 245. When the UFC finally gets a Lebron, it will make Jon Jones look quaint.

I agree with your point that b-ballers are more complete athletes than footballers (although it's possible to be elite at both) and I appreciate that you brought up the fact that it'll require them choosing MMA over b-ball young, rather than crossing over from basketball in their late 20's and expecting anything great. The small/power forward-type of frame and athleticism has been effective already in MMA (Travis Browne and Walt Harris jump to mind) but their relative lack of experience and skill has always shone through in the end when they face elite martial artists. If they had been martial artists to begin with though, who knows how well they might've ended up?

Or fighting's just one of those things where some people have a ridiculous knack for it and it's not possible to use a concept as floating and varying as "athleticism" to account for all of the variables you experience in the cage and the intangibles you just have to be born with to reach the highest levels.

 

[AdamantiumPimmel]

 

[TRYHARD 2001]

NFL beat the best kickboxer of all time, not once, but twice

To be fair, one was an early stoppage and one was due to a (pretty bad) cut.

Regardless, the fact that Bob Sapp, who was quite possibly the least skilled kickboxer to ever make the Grand Prix Semis, beat Hoost, who was such an amazing kickboxer (not the best), has rustled my jimmies for nearly two decades now. If Sapp had manned up and fought Sefo next in the GP he would've been KO'd brutally and JLB would've been champ instead of a shell of his former self with a steel plate in his forearm.

Ahhhh, the twists and turns of fate, eh?

 

[kflo]

Few points - I would agree that athleticism in American football and real football are different. I’ve never stated otherwise. What I would disagree with is that one is inherently more athletic than the other. One (American football) is much more specialised, with each athlete having a very defined role, but as we’ve seen in plenty of boxing vs MMA debates on here...specialisation doesn’t necessarily mean you’re a better athlete.

You mention specifically that many positions in the NFL only require a person to run or jump - the fastest running speeds clocked by real footballers actually beat their NFL counterparts

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/the18.com/news/whose-football-fastest-are-european-or-nfl-players-faster?amp

You talk about my lack of knowledge about American Fatball, but you demonstrate the exact same level of ignorance to the athleticism involved in real football.

I also wasn’t the one that suggested taking Olympic gold medalists as the barometer of elite athletes - had you actually taken the time to read my posts you would realise that I have already stated I disagree with that position. A number of posters supporting the ‘NFL athletes are the best in the world and could beat up Jon Jones’ position stated US Olympic dominance as a demonstration of athletic superiority, until of course it was pointed out to them that there are actually 20 or so countries better at producing Olympic gold calibre athletes than the US.

that link is comparing top speed for the soccer players to average speed over a 40 yard sprint from a stop position. it's really not a comparison.

 

[TRYHARD 2001]

NFL players only need to go for 30 explosive seconds at a time then have a long rest.

It's completely different.

The longest play time-wise in NFL history that I could find was 45 seconds. The average play length is under 10 seconds, followed by up to a 45 second rest. All told, a pro football game amounts to about 11 minutes of action in a three hours and change time slot.

 

[Khaiser]

that link is comparing top speed for the soccer players to average speed over a 40 yard sprint from a stop position. it's really not a comparison.

Fair point - the first I’ve seen on the more pro-NFL side in ages I may add.

It should be noted though that the footballers times aren’t a straight 40 yard dash speed test though. They’re taken from real game situations, where they’re frequently covering about 12km, and in the cases of Robben and Bale also dribbling a ball with their feet.

 

[Khaiser]

I agree with your point that b-ballers are more complete athletes than footballers (although it's possible to be elite at both) and I appreciate that you brought up the fact that it'll require them choosing MMA over b-ball young, rather than crossing over from basketball in their late 20's and expecting anything great. The small/power forward-type of frame and athleticism has been effective already in MMA (Travis Browne and Walt Harris jump to mind) but their relative lack of experience and skill has always shone through in the end when they face elite martial artists. If they had been martial artists to begin with though, who knows how well they might've ended up?

Or fighting's just one of those things where some people have a ridiculous knack for it and it's not possible to use a concept as floating and varying as "athleticism" to account for all of the variables you experience in the cage and the intangibles you just have to be born with to reach the highest levels.

That’s it in a nutshell.

A lot of the US posters seems to see athleticism and natural fighting ability as one of the same thing. They absolutely are not.

Fighting for a living takes a mentality that American football, real football, and rugby simply don’t, and so many ‘intangibles’ besides that.

 

[Khaiser]

Lol at the per capita arguments. A lot of the sports in the olympics shouldn’t even count.

The guy making the per capita argument (which only a complete retard would refute), is also the guy saying that a lot of the sports in the Olympics shouldn’t even count, and that it’s a flawed proxy for ‘Athleticism’.

Quite a pickle, ain’t it?

 

[Khaiser]

I appreciate you trying to educate me but where going nowhere here and getting lost in the details. The only point we non Americans sport fans is trying to make is that athletes in NFL aren't super humans. No doubt they are athletic but so are alot of other sports athletes. You are coming off delusional and borderline religous to us. You may not notice because of your insular ways, but we are here to point it out for you. I mean I actualy had to convince people here that Usain Bolt is faster than anyone in the NFL. I mean Jesus H Christ, thats peak delusion.

<45>

I honestly wouldn’t have believed you if I hadn’t spent a good hour this morning telling people that the best pound for pound fighter on the planet could comfortably molest anyone on the NFL roster if he was that way inclined.

NFL players seemingly fight better than UFC champs, run faster than Olympic sprinters, and have cardio levels on par with the fittest footballers. Not bad going.

 

[Khaiser]

I never called you ignorant. You said yourself you really don't know much about the sports and don't care. I accepted what you told me.

So I can tell you more about the sport but you have to be willing to listen. The sport itself is taxing already because it is a full speed sport. But There are also certain teams and certain times in the game where the game is played at a different tempo. Certain teams do it for a strategic advantage and but most teams will bring it out in order to preserve time and overcome a point deficits. It is called the no Huddle Offense. That means teams will not huddle between downs, they will hustle to the line and run plays without rest. Consistent play, at full speed. So as a Wide receiver or Running back, that means running routes full speed then coming back to the line to do it all over again as quickly as possible. For Cornerbacks and safeties, that means trailing wider receivers if it is man coverage. For a defensive end, that means consistently rushing the passer against a much larger lineman stronger lineman. I would put the conditioning of NFL Wide Receivers and Cornerbacks up with Anyone in Rugby. All they do is run full speed sprints the entire game.

You see, nobody actually disagrees with the idea that you get some excellent athletes in the NFL. What I disagree with is the notion that those athletes could turn their attention to anything and dominate it (in some cases without even practicing it!), or that the NFL has some sort of monopoly on good athletes. It exists in every high level proper sport - football, American football, rugby, Aussie rules football, wrestling, boxing,
MMA, gymnastics, you name it.

 

[Robbie Corleone]

American football is a joke sport that only Americans care about, sorry to break it to you lads. Nothing A-level about it.

 

[kflo]

Fair point - the first I’ve seen on the more pro-NFL side in ages I may add.

It should be noted though that the footballers times aren’t a straight 40 yard dash speed test though. They’re taken from real game situations, where they’re frequently covering about 12km, and in the cases of Robben and Bale also dribbling a ball with their feet.

but there's little chance their top measured speed would be close to that of tyreek hill's top measured speed. at least not on the pitch compared to hill on a track. at least not based on their speeds in the article compared to bolt's top sprint speed (hill would about 94-95% of bolt's top speed of 44.7 km/hr, or 42 km/hr. even if we round down to 90% of bolt's top speed its still 40 km/hr, materially higher than 37). but there's little evidence to suggest the soccer guys can hit 40. maybe if they trained for sprinting they could increase their top speed to get there.

 

[Riot Punch]

The guy making the per capita argument (which only a complete retard would refute), is also the guy saying that a lot of the sports in the Olympics shouldn’t even count, and that it’s a flawed proxy for ‘Athleticism’.

Quite a pickle, ain’t it?

You made 5 posts in a row with no one responding. Pretty pathetic.

As someone said before, that per capita argument isn’t linear. The total population isn’t participating in the olympics. I understand the point you’re trying to make though, it’s cute. My point is that who gives a shit if a country with a population of 100,000 people wins a gold medal in something like sailing, curling, table tennis, etc...

 

[KeyboardFighter]

<45>

I honestly wouldn’t have believed you if I hadn’t spent a good hour this morning telling people that the best pound for pound fighter on the planet could comfortably molest anyone on the NFL roster if he was that way inclined.

NFL players seemingly fight better than UFC champs, run faster than Olympic sprinters, and have cardio levels on par with the fittest footballers. Not bad going.

Yeah I knew they where delusional but I was really taken aback trying to argue for Usain Bolt being faster. Crazier than i've could have ever imagined.

American sports culture is really unique in the world and I think it's because it's more family oriented and commercialized than in other countries. It's seems like the NFL propaganda machine doesn't mind spewing any nonsense to get the average coors lite drinking, burger eating joe to tune in to their product.

 

[Larzon]

This quote sums up soccer and rugby very well. "Football is 90 minutes pretending you are hurt. Rugby is 80 minutes pretending you're not."

 

[Khaiser]

You made 5 posts in a row with no one responding. Pretty pathetic.

As someone said before, that per capita argument isn’t linear. The total population isn’t participating in the olympics. I understand the point you’re trying to make though, it’s cute. My point is that who gives a shit if a country with a population of 100,000 people wins a gold medal in something like sailing, curling, table tennis, etc...

Pathetic? Ouch! My feelings are hurt that a nameless internet poster thinks my relatively short posting history is pathetic

Recovering from a ruptured Achilles’ tendon lad. Time is on my side, believe me.

As for ‘the total population isn’t competing in the Olympics’ just actually laughing my ass off at that <45>

Willfully ignoring that population makes a huge difference to a countries medal haul is pure retardation. The fact that the ‘argument isn’t linear’ is exactly my point - there variation in how efficient countries are at producing Olympic gold medalists, and the US isn’t the best in that regard or even close to it.

As I keep reiterating to you dribbling spastics - I wasn’t the one that used Olympic gold medals as the barometer of A-level athleticism! It was one of your brainwashed yank mates who then disappeared when it was pointed out to him
that on a per capita basis you punch well below weight relative to a host of European nations.

If you ask me, the olympics should be track & field, swimming (freestyle only), weightlifting and combat sports only.