If NFL is A level athleticism

[Khaiser]

That doesn't make any sense. Athleticism in American football and soccer are entirely different. Most positions in the NFL rely on pure athletics and not a particular skill - it is nothing like soccer. You do not need to be a supreme athlete to be a great soccer player, it is a sport that requires much more skill and knowledge. Many NFL players could be (or in fact were in college) great Track and Field athletes. You are just simply not knowledge of the sport you are critiquing, and it is very painfully obvious.

Many positions in the NFL merely require a person to run or jump - that naturally means raw athleticism is more important than a sport that would require dribbling, vision or precision. Hence why gymnast and wrestlers are great athletes despite them not having the benefits of playing in professional sports. This is not comparable to football (soccer) at all - soccer is more comparable to hockey in those regards.

And there are other sports other than American Football that is popular in the US that are not Olympic sports...USA is not as tunnel visioned on a particular sport as the U.K is. The fact that you seem to think that there are athletes like JJ Watt and Adrian Peterson running around in the Premier league makes me think you really have no idea what you're talking about.

You also have a very arbitrary standard of determining what countries generate elite athlete by limiting it to gold medalist. The fact that you do not see the variables that go in or why that is a weak standard is somewhat alarming. The argument that the UK is better at producing athletes than the USA because it has a better ratio of gold medalist to population is basically surface level logic, it doesn't have much depth at all.

And I still have no idea how you think that not having a lot of athletes tied up in the NFL and NBA does not make a difference - considering those sports rely significantly more on physicality than soccer does.

You literally cannot be an NBA player if you do not have certain measurements, or an NFL player for that matter bar a few positions. More rugby players would transition to the NFL for higher pay if they were all just slow fat guys as you suggest.

Furthermore, if a basketball team has 15 players or so - then they have essentially won 15 gold medals. But naturally that is not how gold medals are counted in official standings. Lebron James, Kevin Durant, Kobe Bryant are all clearly Olympic caliber athletes, gold medal caliber athletes at that - yet using your standard they only amount to one gold medal despite being 3 distinct athletes.

I don't live in USA by the way. I do find it funny that Europeans say things like Americans think the world revolves around them, when they are quite blind of their own Euro centrism.

Few points - I would agree that athleticism in American football and real football are different. I’ve never stated otherwise. What I would disagree with is that one is inherently more athletic than the other. One (American football) is much more specialised, with each athlete having a very defined role, but as we’ve seen in plenty of boxing vs MMA debates on here...specialisation doesn’t necessarily mean you’re a better athlete.

You mention specifically that many positions in the NFL only require a person to run or jump - the fastest running speeds clocked by real footballers actually beat their NFL counterparts

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/the1...astest-are-european-or-nfl-players-faster?amp

You talk about my lack of knowledge about American Fatball, but you demonstrate the exact same level of ignorance to the athleticism involved in real football.

I also wasn’t the one that suggested taking Olympic gold medalists as the barometer of elite athletes - had you actually taken the time to read my posts you would realise that I have already stated I disagree with that position. A number of posters supporting the ‘NFL athletes are the best in the world and could beat up Jon Jones’ position stated US Olympic dominance as a demonstration of athletic superiority, until of course it was pointed out to them that there are actually 20 or so countries better at producing Olympic gold calibre athletes than the US.

 

[Khaiser]

Maybe, just maybe, it's not the best idea to choose as a physical performance metric the number of medals in a competition that includes:
Table tennis
bow shooting
pistol shooting
walking (yeah there is a fucking walking olympic champ)
curling
sailing
horse riding
golf

What's next? Quidditch and Fortnite?

I would agree entirely.

Like I said, it was those defending the ridiculous ‘nfl = unparalleled athleticism’ idea that suggested it in the first place. Until of course it was demonstrated to actually work against their argument....

 

[Takamine86]

Or......or....because per capita output of Olympic gold medalists is the true measure of how successful a population is at producing....Olympic gold medalists?


Again, that it simply me stating a fact. It isn’t up for debate that there are countries who are more successful are producing Olympic gold medalists. Not taking their population into account is a bizarre ‘head in the sand’ position to take.

The fact is the country that has won the most gold medals has been the most successful at producing gold medalists.

Rank Country Gold Medals
1 United States 1,126
2 Soviet Union 473
3 Germany 319
4 Great Britain 273

 

[Khaiser]

Rank Country Gold Medals
1 United States 1,126
2 Soviet Union 473
3 Germany 319
4 Great Britain 273

Rank Country Total Medals
1 United States 2,827
2 Soviet Union 1,204
3 Germany 992
4 Great Britain 876

^This is the U.S. rarely putting it to the test.

Eh.....yeh?

You do realise the olympics are once every 4 years, right?

If you did something once every 4 years would you not say you did it quite rarely?

The Olympic argument has been put to bed son, as should you be.

It’s neither a good barometer of athletic ability or one the US excel in. Unless you want to willfully ignore the data and roll with it anyway.

 

[Doctor Grudge]

The fact is the county that has won the most gold medals has been the most successful at producing gold medalists.

Rank Country Gold Medals
1 United States 1,126
2 Soviet Union 473
3 Germany 319
4 Great Britain 273

It's cute that he was trying to be frank and straight forward and somehow overlooked this fact.

His methodology really makes little sense in regards to the UK vs US. UK should have got 60x the amount of gold medals of the super powerful and rich country of Fiji!

 

[Khaiser]

The fact is the county that has won the most gold medals has been the most successful at producing gold medalists.

Rank Country Gold Medals
1 United States 1,126
2 Soviet Union 473
3 Germany 319
4 Great Britain 273

Fair enough son, you go with it.

The people actually involved in having a sensible debate will carry on taking population size into account.

USA! USA! USA!

<45>

 

[Khaiser]

It's cute that he was trying to be frank and straight forward and somehow overlooked this fact.

His methodology really makes little sense in regards to the UK vs US. UK should have got 60x the amount of gold medals of the super powerful and rich country of Fiji!

I’m sorry, I wasn’t aware you didn’t know what linear extrapolation was.

To be clear, all countries shouldn’t have the exact same number of gold medals per capita. The variation is said figure, is a however, a fairly good representation of said countries ability to....you know...produce Olympic gold medalists.

 

[Takamine86]

Eh.....yeh?

You do realise the olympics are once every 4 years, right?

If you did something once every 4 years would you not say you did it quite rarely?

The Olympic argument has been put to bed son, as should you be.

It’s neither a good barometer of athletic ability or one the US excel in. Unless you want to willfully ignore the data and roll with it anyway.

So an event where countries all over the world compete against each other in athletics isn't a good barometer of athletic ability. <45>

So soccer, a sport where countries compete against each other is a good barometer for you. But the Olympics, an event where even more countries compete against each other in multiple sports isn't a good barometer. <Lmaoo>

 

[Takamine86]

Fair enough son, you go with it.

The people actually involved in having a sensible debate will carry on taking population size into account.

USA! USA! USA!

<45>

There is nothing sensible about it. The MMA world doesn't feel like Ireland produces the most UFC champions just because they produced Conor who comes from the small country Ireland. It doesn't work like that.

 

[Khaiser]

So an event where countries all over the world compete against each other in athletics isn't a good barometer of athletic ability. <45>

So soccer, a sport where countries compete against each other is a good barometer for you. But the Olympics, an event where even more countries compete against each other in multiple sports isn't a good barometer. <Lmaoo>

Incorrect in almost every regard.

My position - athletes are increasingly specialised. It takes a rare athlete to successfully crossover from one sport into another sport and achieve success.
You’re as likely to find those athletes in football, American football, rugby union or league as you are in any other high level team ball sport.

American position - NFL HAS THR BEST ATHLETES IN THE WORLD AND THEY COULD DOMINATE ANY OTHER SPORT. THEY JUST CHOOSE NOT TO!

Neither football or the olympics are a flawless source of assessing a countries ability to produce high level athletes. The Olympics is better than football in that regard as its obviously a multi sport event. When considering what countries are successful at producing Olympic gold calibre athletes, population has to be taken into account.....for the non-retarded.

What we do know;
1. On a per capita basis, the US is not particularly brilliant at producing Olympic gold athletes.
2. High level athletes in every country have an attraction towards sports where the Olympics is not the main event. This is NOT something limited to Americans and the NFL.
3. Real footballers have higher top speeds than American footballers.

 

[Khaiser]

There is nothing sensible about it. The MMA world doesn't feel like Ireland produces the most UFC champions just because they produced Conor who comes from the small country Ireland. It doesn't work like that.

I’ve explained population size and outliers already. Do you know what a probability distribution is? Ireland would be out with the confidence intervals. The UK would not.

 

[Fergelmince]

Having all these world class athletes play in a sport only played within the bounds of one country is just sooooo convenient <45>

The US is a the sporting equivalent of a guy walking around stating he’s the best in the world at everything, but rarely actually putting it to the test. When the big test does arrive every 4 years, they demonstrate that they’re pretty good, but far from anything truly special, and then quickly retreat to the safety of their home turf again.

Because they’re the only country in the world with sportsmen that gravitate towards team focused, ball sports apparently.....<45>

Rank Country Gold Medals
1 United States 1,126
2 Soviet Union 473
3 Germany 319
4 Great Britain 273

Rank Country Total Medals
1 United States 2,827
2 Soviet Union 1,204
3 Germany 992
4 Great Britain 876

^This is the U.S. rarely putting it to the test.

 

[Takamine86]

Incorrect in almost every regard.

My position - athletes are increasingly specialised. It takes a rare athlete to successfully crossover from one sport into another sport and achieve success.
You’re as likely to find those athletes in football, American football, rugby union or league as you are in any other high level team ball sport.

American position - NFL HAS THR BEST ATHLETES IN THE WORLD AND THEY COULD DOMINATE ANY OTHER SPORT. THEY JUST CHOOSE NOT TO!

Neither football or the olympics are a flawless source of assessing a countries ability to produce high level athletes. The Olympics is better than football in that regard as its obviously a multi sport event. When considering what countries are successful at producing Olympic gold calibre athletes, population has to be taken into account.....for the non-retarded.

What we do know;
1. On a per capita basis, the US is not particularly brilliant at producing Olympic gold athletes.
2. High level athletes in every country have an attraction towards sports where the Olympics is not the main event. This is NOT something limited to Americans and the NFL.
3. Real footballers have higher top speeds than American footballers.

Resorting to name calling huh. lol.

Socrates — 'When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the loser.'

The Olympics is the best barometer we have to compare athletes from different countries in different sport. You may not like the results, but you will accept them like everyone else.

Rank Country Gold Medals
1 United States 1,126
2 Soviet Union 473
3 Germany 319
4 Great Britain 273



"High level athletes in every country have an attraction towards sports where the Olympics is not the main event. This is NOT something limited to Americans and the NFL." - Khaiser

^ I'm glad you can finally admit it. The only reason I brought up the Olympics to begin with is because you said Americans are only good at sports that other countries don't participate in. Hundreds of countries participate in the Olympics and the U.S. has taken home the most gold medals and medals in general. I know it is hard to accept because it goes against your argument that Americans are only good at sports that other countries don't participate in, but you will accept it like everyone else.

 

[Yep]

Resorting to name calling huh. lol.

Socrates — 'When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the loser.'

The Olympics is the best barometer we have to compare athletes from different countries in different sport. You may not like the results, but you will accept them like everyone else.

Rank Country Gold Medals
1 United States 1,126
2 Soviet Union 473
3 Germany 319
4 Great Britain 273



"High level athletes in every country have an attraction towards sports where the Olympics is not the main event. This is NOT something limited to Americans and the NFL." - Khaiser

^ I'm glad you can finally admit it. The only reason I brought up the Olympics to begin with is because you said Americans are only good at sports that other countries don't participate in. Hundreds of countries participate in the Olympics and the U.S. has taken home the most gold medals and medals in general. I know it is hard to accept because it goes against your argument that Americans are only good at sports that other countries don't participate in, but you will accept it like everyone else.

It’s not like the USA gets more competitors in the field because they have a greater population. If anything it’s much harder for an athlete here to even qualify for an event, maintain healthiness after they do, and still get to compete. Let’s look at women’s gymnastics for instance. We can only bring 4 athletes. We could probably field 10 legit gold medal contenders especially when you consider specializations to events. Not counting Biles cuz she’s by far the greatest athlete in the world and pretty much unbeatable unless something goes horribly wrong and she suffers an injury. Nobody comes even close to beating a healthy Biles. But if we take her out of the argument because she’s an extreme outlier there’s easily numbers upwards of 10 that could legitimately win gold. But god forbid in this ultimate barometer in athleticism shall we actually display all the greatest athletes because we are afraid that countries like the USA might sweep 1 2 3.

 

[Khaiser]

Resorting to name calling huh. lol.

Socrates — 'When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the loser.'

The Olympics is the best barometer we have to compare athletes from different countries in different sport. You may not like the results, but you will accept them like everyone else.

Rank Country Gold Medals
1 United States 1,126
2 Soviet Union 473
3 Germany 319
4 Great Britain 273



"High level athletes in every country have an attraction towards sports where the Olympics is not the main event. This is NOT something limited to Americans and the NFL." - Khaiser

^ I'm glad you can finally admit it. The only reason I brought up the Olympics to begin with is because you said Americans are only good at sports that other countries don't participate in. Hundreds of countries participate in the Olympics and the U.S. has taken home the most gold medals and medals in general. I know it is hard to accept because it goes against your argument that Americans are only good at sports that other countries don't participate in, but you will accept it like everyone else.

The retard claim is completely valid for you son, because you consistently demonstrate a lack of reading comprehension.

I’ve never stated that the US are only good at sports that only the US compete in - I said they’re not spectacular at producing Olympic gold medalists on a per capita basis - and you aren’t.

I’m happy to use the Olympics as a barometer of ‘A level athleticism’ if you like, and the figures don’t lie. The US simply isn’t as efficient as producing A-level athletes as
a significant number of other nations. That is simply a fact son, it isn’t something contentious or debatable.

But you’ve got other sports to focus on (like all other countries), and NFL players are faster (until they come up against real footballers - I notice nobody has taken on that point), and some mumbo jumbo about college places.

Excuses are like bitches lad, and you do an awful lot of bitchin’

 

[Rygu]

NFL players are faster (until they come up against real footballers - I notice nobody has taken on that point)

Ok, I'll bite.

What soccer player is faster than Tyreek Hill?

 

[spinup]

Ok, I'll bite.

What soccer player is faster than Tyreek Hill?

 

[Khaiser]

Ok, I'll bite.

What soccer player is faster than Tyreek Hill?

I have no idea who he is.

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/the1...astest-are-european-or-nfl-players-faster?amp

 

[Khaiser]

Ok, I'll bite.

What soccer player is faster than Tyreek Hill?

Did some quick maths. The answer is Arjen Robben.

 

[Khaiser]

It’s very telling that real footballers being faster than American footballers comes as a surprise to most here....