If Jean Jacques Machado fought MMA with two digits on one hand, why can't Gordon Ryan?

[TheMaster]

Logical argument for/against Gordon Ryan doing an MMA bout:

- He saw what happened to Roger Gracie, and doesn’t want a great submission grappling career tarnished with video footage of him getting KTFO or tapping to strikes

- He could get cracked and then tapped when stunned, which would question the validity of his grappling as translated to fighting.

On the other hand as it stands he just looks weak never doing even one MMA fight. Submission grappling is only relevant as a sport, because of MMA. Viewed from that perspective, Gordon Ryan is basically leeching a career off of MMA fighters indirectly:

People only became aware of and care about sport BJJ and nogi because of its application in MMA; there is only money in the sport because of its influence in MMA; Ryan makes a living in the sport because of MMA fighters using it in real combat, which he conveniently gets to avoid.

Admittedly, he doesn't form opinions about MMA as far as I'm aware so he can't be called a dry land swimmer and warrant this.



However if a guy with two digits one hand has the guts to fight MMA, why can't Gordon Ryan?

 

[randomg1t]

On the other hand as it stands he just looks weak never doing even one MMA fight.

he looks weak to who? you? how many pro fights have you had?

i don't even like gordon, but this bitchin about him not fighting MMA is ridiculous. why does he need to fight? he's ruling the nogi grappling scene with an iron fist.

the only argument i've ever had in favor of him needing to fight MMA was when he hit galvao. you want to start shit like that, do it to someone who actually wants to fight in some grappling event's backstage, or do it in a professional fight.

but in general, demanding he fights because he's a good grappler? grow up.

 

[TheMaster]

why does he need to fight? he's ruling the nogi grappling scene with an iron fist.

There are many arguments, but I will just reiterate one of them as I stated above: BJJ was put on the map in the US and the wider world, because of MMA. Its only relevant today because of MMA. Theres only money in it, because of the association with MMA.
These are all undisputed facts.Therefore, to walk around claiming to be the best eva in a sport that only became relevant because of MMA, yet avoid ever testing yourself in MMA is IMO, a disrespect to the art and its history.
You can whine about this perspective all you want, but its very valid.

Its the reason guys like Jean Jacques stepped in there when really they had no business doing so. If you don't get that you dont really get the spirit of the art.

the only argument i've ever had in favor of him needing to fight MMA was when he hit galvao. you want to start shit like that, do it to someone who actually wants to fight in some grappling event's backstage, or do it in a professional fight.

Another good argument also.

 

[Rob Battisti]

He won’t have an MMA fight because he simply doesn’t want to. I can respect that.

No one is saying Jordan Burroughs sucks because he won’t do MMA. It’s the same thing. Two different sports.

 

[randomg1t]

These are all undisputed facts.Therefore, to walk around claiming to be the best eva in a sport that only became relevant because of MMA, yet avoid ever testing yourself in MMA is IMO, a disrespect to the art and its history.
You can whine about this perspective all you want, but its very valid.

you're the one whining that someone isn't fighting.

again, how many fights have you had, tough guy?

 

[RemyR]

Counterpoint: a quick Google of Gordon Ryan says his net worth is 50 million. Do you think Dana could cough up any cash that would be worth his while? I don't think so.

From Dana's point of view Gordon is a niche draw. The amount of cash he'd have to cough up probably isn't worth the investment business wise especially since Gordon could just turn out to be a flop.

And from Gordon's point of view he is crushing his chosen sport and making a killing. If he loses in MMA his value and mystique take a bit of a hit.

Lastly I very much disagree with you that just because he's good at BJJ he has to do MMA. BJJ is a combative sport just like boxing, wrestling, Muay Thai etc. Not everyone that does these sports has to make the cross over to MMA. It's perfectly ok to stick to your chosen sport.

 

[Einheri]

They changed the rules of MMA to actively disfavour grapplers and favour strikers. Gloves and wraps, rounds, referee standups, scoring striking higher than grappling. Why should a grappler have to "prove" themselves in an arena that is made to work against them?

There may be an argument for Vale Tudo, but not unified rules MMA.

 

[Long Dark Blues]

Maybe he just doesn't want to?

 

[ChickenBrother]

Logical argument against TS doing an MMA bout:

- He saw what happened to Roger Gracie, and doesn’t want a 2002 Sherdog account tarnished with video footage of him getting KTFO or tapping to strikes

- He could get cracked and then tapped when stunned, which would question the validity of his TMA as translated to fighting.

On the other hand as it stands he just looks weak never doing even one MMA fight. Sherdog is only relevant as a forum because of MMA. Viewed from that perspective, TS is basically leeching a career off of MMA fighters indirectly:

People only became aware of and care about talking shit on Sherdog because of its application in MMA; however, on its own there is no money in it; TS only does it as a labor of love because of MMA fighters using it in real combat, which he conveniently gets to avoid.

 

[Croton]

Bro is ruling no-gi BJJ JUICED TO THE TITS. Fat chance he gets off the gear to transition to MMA.

 

[maximus__]

There are many arguments, but I will just reiterate one of them as I stated above: BJJ was put on the map in the US and the wider world, because of MMA. Its only relevant today because of MMA. Theres only money in it, because of the association with MMA.
These are all undisputed facts.Therefore, to walk around claiming to be the best eva in a sport that only became relevant because of MMA, yet avoid ever testing yourself in MMA is IMO, a disrespect to the art and its history.
You can whine about this perspective all you want, but its very valid.

Its the reason guys like Jean Jacques stepped in there when really they had no business doing so. If you don't get that you dont really get the spirit of the art.


Another good argument also.

JJ athletes used to go into MMA to make money. Gordon became richer than most MMA fighters by grappling and selling instructionals.
As a JJ athlete you don't need to fight MMA anymore because guys like him were able to be so successful without taking that path.

I think every JJ athlete should train with strikes because it changes the game a lot, but you don't have to fight MMA as a JJ athlete if you don't want to.
He could walk onto the regional scene and smoke a lot of guys, but at his level he is going to end up in there with higher level people.
He trains with elite level MMA fighters all the time. He probably understands that he isn't going to be on that level in MMA and has no reason to take the risk for less money.

I have no interest in him and Kade doing a crappy kickboxing match because he won't want to grapple with Gordon.

 

[HunterAcosta]

I think its pretty funny though that Kade Ruotuolo called him out for avoiding mma. Kade actually challenged him to combat bjj. I dont really care if Ryan does mma. He prob will eventually. Dude's still hella young but if you can make hella money doing no gi grappliing and not get your nose rearranged, why not stay with it!?

 

[biscuitsbrah]

Dude has permanent bubble guts he’s basically retired

 

[Goatenstein]

He is too insecure to compete in a "clean" sport.

 

[pinoy wrestler]

Logical argument for/against Gordon Ryan doing an MMA bout:

- He saw what happened to Roger Gracie, and doesn’t want a great submission grappling career tarnished with video footage of him getting KTFO or tapping to strikes

- He could get cracked and then tapped when stunned, which would question the validity of his grappling as translated to fighting.

On the other hand as it stands he just looks weak never doing even one MMA fight. Submission grappling is only relevant as a sport, because of MMA. Viewed from that perspective, Gordon Ryan is basically leeching a career off of MMA fighters indirectly:

People only became aware of and care about sport BJJ and nogi because of its application in MMA; there is only money in the sport because of its influence in MMA; Ryan makes a living in the sport because of MMA fighters using it in real combat, which he conveniently gets to avoid.

Admittedly, he doesn't form opinions about MMA as far as I'm aware so he can't be called a dry land swimmer and warrant this.



However if a guy with two digits one hand has the guts to fight MMA, why can't Gordon Ryan?

"If Jean Jacques Machado fought MMA with two digits on one hand, why can't Gordon Ryan?"

It's because he has no two digits in his ailing stomach.

 

[Foppa21]

I think he's mentioned that he doesn't want to anymore. I think originally, he wanted to. Most people that start in BJJ before wanted to use it as a stepping stone to MMA. He's found his niche and at this time, doesn't seem to feel the need to challenge himself in a different field anymore. It'd only be a issue IMO if he called people out in that field and never follows through

 

[shunyata]

he looks weak to who? you? how many pro fights have you had?

i don't even like gordon, but this bitchin about him not fighting MMA is ridiculous. why does he need to fight? he's ruling the nogi grappling scene with an iron fist.

the only argument i've ever had in favor of him needing to fight MMA was when he hit galvao. you want to start shit like that, do it to someone who actually wants to fight in some grappling event's backstage, or do it in a professional fight.

but in general, demanding he fights because he's a good grappler? grow up.

Right? Like if we wanted to play that game, Renzo and JJM are retired from competition. Super weak.

 

[TheMaster]

JJ athletes used to go into MMA to make money. Gordon became richer than most MMA fighters by grappling and selling instructionals.
As a JJ athlete you don't need to fight MMA anymore because guys like him were able to be so successful without taking that path.

You think Jean-Jaques stepped in there for money? When he was part of one of the most successful jiu-jitsu franchises in Brazil? It might sound cliché but clearly it was for 'honour' and for the art. Testing himself and for the warrior spirit.
He basically wanted to know "how real is my jiu-jitsu" in a sense of does it work in a free fight against someone else who is trained and trying to punch him in the face.

Right? Like if we wanted to play that game, Renzo and JJM are retired from competition. Super weak.

JJM is 56 now. Ryan is half his age at 28.

Bro is ruling no-gi BJJ JUICED TO THE TITS. Fat chance he gets off the gear to transition to MMA.

Kind of like the elephant in the room. He would need to get onto the Gracie diet.

 

[Mick Dojang]

They changed the rules of MMA to actively disfavour grapplers and favour strikers. Gloves and wraps, rounds, referee standups, scoring striking higher than grappling. Why should a grappler have to "prove" themselves in an arena that is made to work against them?

There may be an argument for Vale Tudo, but not unified rules MMA.

Tbf removing headbutts on the ground was a big pro-BJJ move

Stalling in guard stops being such a good idea when it puts you within headbutt range

 

[mattemate]

Why would he take a pay cut to get concussed?