Kobe also had the greatest coach of all time and prime Dwight Howard, Steve Nash, Gary Payton, Ron Artest (one of the best defensive players ever), Karl Malone. Sure some were older, but if you are going to count an old 10 PPG Allen for Lebron, you have to count a 20PPG old Karl Malone. And Wade was only good in 2011 with Lebron (and Lebron choked lol, but Kobe choked just as bad in 2004) after that he was always injured and looked more like he was hurting the Heat then helping them. I don't think there is any argument for Kobe over Lebron. The plus's for Kobe (scoring, killer instinct, clutch) are all things Lebron is much better then. Lebron shoots WAY better in clutch situations and hit more big shots in the playoffs. He also plays MUCH better in big playoff games and elimination games then Kobe did. He is not a score first player but he still has a higher PPG then Kobe at a much better FG%.I am not even a big Lebron fan, but Kobe is not close to him
Jordan crushed them all agreed though. Not undisputed because lots of people argue Kareem, Russell or Lebron over him. I find it stupid, but people do argue against Jordan
This is, of course, just my opinion much like you’re providing. Here’s my insight though.
Phil being the greatest coach ever is debatable, but you won’t get a counter argument from me. “prime” Dwight Howard is nothing to write home about though. Possibly the most overrated player of the 21st century at one point. Gary Payton, Steve Nash, and Karl Malone were all well beyond their primes when they joined the lakers. Absolutely no doubt Lebron has played around more talent. Does that make him better or worse, dunno. I’m not nearly as convinced that lebron is better than Kobe as you are.
Kareem and Russell aren’t even the the best centers of all time. Wilt Chamberlain categorically annihilated Russell in every way except winning. Take a look at the Celtics roster from that period - legendary.
If you quantify greatness, Wilt is the greatest basketball player to ever live. Obviously context matters though. We’ve come a long way. Take legendary status away, take records away, and place everyone in an absolute vacuum. Gun to your head, you’re picking prime Hakeem or Shaq as your center.
To me, it’s similar to, say, Matt Hughes vs Tryon Woodley. Hughes is “greater” and far more legendary, but from an absolute perspective, if they faced prime for prime, Woodley would certainly knock him out.
It’s all subjective, but to me, Michael Jordan is the best player ever.
It’s very hard to place centers in the Goat conversation given the large role variations over different eras.
1. Jordan
2. Wilt
3 (not in any order)
Bird
Magic
Oscar
Kareem
Kobe
Lebron
Shaq
Duncan
Olajuwon
Russell
That’s more than 10, but they all have a claim to being on that list, and probably a few more I’m overlooking. It’s always fun to discuss anyway. I’m always happy to discuss it so long as nobody gets mad and says their opinion is better. We all evaluate talent differently and no doubt each one of the guys above have achieved things great enough to be labeled an all time great.