If Gordon Ryan's not going to MMA anymore.....

[Normot]

Exactly
So, imagine how much would Ryan will be offered to fight in such organization.
And his inspiration, to compete at the top level of MMA...

To get there, he will need to get paychecks like this, then score some wins over mediocre fighters, become a champ in B or C level organization, before he could even get a chance to fight in undercard in UFC and get $5000.

And no, he isnt becoming UFC champ anytime soon.

So, here it is.

He is taken care of by Flo Grappling and a few other brands.
He is participating only in events, where he has best chance to win or claim moral victory.
Not a bad strategy, so far.
General Sub Grappling population sees him as a demigod

People, that have been around this scene for as long as I am, have seen this already multiple times.

Hence I can predict the outcome

In most cases unless you are in the UFC or bellator you already know you won't be making any money, you have to work your way up the ranks and that's not just because of promotional reasons. It's for skill development. If your Ryan Gordon you want to start off taking low level guys. Guys you can practice striking with who you can submit instantly if it gets scary. Guys to beatup just to deal with the nerves. Just like his buddy Gary Tonon.

I think for a pure BJJ guy to start MMA and striking late in their mid 20s is fucking nuts though. That's late in life to decide you want to get punched in the head, usually your too smart for that. Yeah, there have been a lot of success stories, but he may have quickly realized this shit fucks you up and he already has money.


I agree with everything your saying, but mainly fighting is fucking nuts, especially if your already old enough to know better.

 

[DatCutman]

GR will go to WWE and make about 500k/ year before taxes. Much better financial opportunity than UFC. Vince Mcamahon will pay him they don’t have many athletic ppl there now currently

The puroresu-fan in me loves the idea that the alternate career path of BJJ isn't UFC, but WWE.

Didn't work out well for Ronda Rousey though.

 

[AZ103]

The event in question was taking place in Japan.
No westerners viewership was even considered.

As for the Sambo champ, he owns a factory in his own town
A $1.500 for him is a small change.

I know that people here do not follow, but in a lot of countries, Sambo champions are well taken care off, by their own government, state and corporate sponsors.
Those are not people, that need to do privates for living.

Examples above are to illustrate the business side of match making, events organization and public perception about athletes.

Let me put it simple:
1. How does Flo Grappling make money?
2. How many people are paying subscription and PPVs for Flo Grappling events?
3. How many subscribers does Flo Wrestling has?
4. How many Wrestling fans paid to watch Ryan been teched in a few seconds and were happy with it?

I highly doubt such events will continue, since it doesnt make sense to pay big bucks to athletes and watch obvious results:
The sub grappler will sub and the wrestler will tech, in their respective rule sets.
What is achieved?
Nothing.

Thats why they needed your rule set. In my opinion flo and the fact that quintet is on fight pass are both bad for grappling sports. The pay walls are killing niche grappling viewership. I love to watch wrestling and i have to have cable and two website subs to watch if i want to have all the matches. Wtf.

do you think flo is good for the sport?

 

[Ivaylo Ivanov]

Thats why they needed your rule set. In my opinion flo and the fact that quintet is on fight pass are both bad for grappling sports. The pay walls are killing niche grappling viewership. I love to watch wrestling and i have to have cable and two website subs to watch if i want to have all the matches. Wtf.

do you think flo is good for the sport?

The whole Flo concept is very strange to me.

Everywhere on the planet, you can watch Olympic Wrestling for free, on official UWW channel in YT.

Only in USA, Flo has a monopoly of airing Olympic wrestling.
Im not even sure how they pull this off, because by definition, Olympic sports should be available to watch for free.

And then you have Flo Grappling, which obviously cannot possibly cover their own expenses by showing Sub Grappling, paying big bucks and depending on subscription (which it turns out is quite low).

So, they obviously are trying to get numbers up, by sneaking some wrestling vs grappling matches here and there (hoping wrestling fans switch), but its done in such manner, that they dont consider the viewers sentiments.

Instead of presenting a equal chance of winning in one platform and get explosive matches, they try some weird rule sets, leaving everyone confused.

Look at the last one they did:
Under sub grappling rules, Ryan disregards tap from Downey (he would get DQed for that, in a lot of major rule sets), then under wrestling rule set, Downey toys with him in such fashion, its not even funny.

Both of them walk out with a victory.

Nothing is resolved.

We have a product of a high level athlete vs
low level athlete (considering both athletes in just one set or the other):

Sub Grappling:
Ryan - high level
Downey- low level

Wrestling:
Downey - high level
Ryan - low level

Who wants to watch this?!?!

So, yeah, I think Flo is the problem.
They do have a lot of options there, that for one reason or another, they choose not to use, betting heavy on Ryan and trying to squeeze as much as possible, while its possible.

As for Quintet, Im all for it.
Its a great team tournament, using the concept of Judo team tournaments in Japan.
Nice production, but again, a bit short on money.

I was asked to put a Combat Wrestling team there, but they wanted only Japanese guys, so they wouldn't need to pay for tickets and expenses for travel.

I refused, because it is obvious they have budget for some teams and dont have budget for others

We already have a few guys in there, including Shutaro Debana, who is a CW World champ, Sambo national champ, IBJJF national champ and 2nd in Judo nationals (the guy he lost to, is a Japanese Judo national team member and Olympic champion).

I know what the contrast of payment is between such a decorated grappler and people that are just popular

If they can offer equal pay for all sides, I can send them teams in both, Combat Wrestling and Sambo, that would smoke away the competition.

 

[JustTheTip]

What else is there to accomplish in BJJ?
World Championship
Pans Championship
Euros
Brasileiros
He really hasn't accomplished much in BJJ.

NoGi is niche and even ADCC is new in comparison to BJJ competition. Most of the top BJJ competitors including Buchecha train NoGi secondary to the Gi.

So to answer the question, Gordon has plenty to still accomplish in BJJ. This includes winning a World title or even a major.

If he chooses to not compete in BJJ and instead focus on the niche sport of NoGi, then he could focus on winning the most championships. In ADCC he has 2 championships. There are 12 other 2 time ADCC champions,3 3 time ADCC champions and 2 4 time ADCC champions. IMO its ridiculous to be "bored" when there is so much more to accomplish.

 

[yetanother]

He really hasn't accomplished much in BJJ.
/QUOTE]

No gi is a different sport then gi BJJ. A huge part of why Gordon is so good at no-gi is that he has a coach that understands that and he trains specifically for that ruleset rather than doing whatever gi shit that happens to work during no-gi training

 

[sb413197]

This is so dumb. I hear it in my gi classes all of the time and it doesn't make any sense. For every person who has more success without a gi is a person who has more success with a gi. It isn't "easier". It's a different skillet that is more natural to some.

I think usually when people say "no gi is easier" what they actually mean is "I don't like how much of the body control that wrestling teaches translates to no gi. Wrestlers who I beat easily in a gi can give me a tough match without a gi. This should not be the case."

I would say there's just more people and more money in it, so the strength of competition and level of athlete in general is higher. Not to say Ryan isn't a great athlete at all, because he is - but it's just that he is the biggest fish in a tiny subsection of an already relatively small pond, with very few fish to begin with...so it's hard to know how he would stack up in gi BJJ if he focused on it for awhile. And the level of competition in MMA is higher than gi BJJ considerably, and the level in the really big sports (basketball, American football etc) is even higher than that so you get the real super athletes there...of course they are all different sports with somewhat differing needs.

In MMA, it's more an issue in the heavier weight classes do most of the best athletes get sucked up by mainstream sports, and is compounded by less people being that size in general - which is why lightweight tends to be the deeper ones. Pay in MMA appears to be dropping for the non-Conor's of the world too, so you see more specialist martial artists staying in their original sports (Jordan Burroughs, now Gordon Ryan etc) than perhaps in past years.

 

[Canned Tuna]

I would say there's just more people and more money in it, so the strength of competition and level of athlete in general is higher. Not to say Ryan isn't a great athlete at all, because he is - but it's just that he is the biggest fish in a tiny subsection of an already relatively small pond, with very few fish to begin with...so it's hard to know how he would stack up in gi BJJ if he focused on it for awhile. And the level of competition in MMA is higher than gi BJJ considerably, and the level in the really big sports (basketball, American football etc) is even higher than that so you get the real super athletes there...of course they are all different sports with somewhat differing needs.

In MMA, it's more an issue in the heavier weight classes do most of the best athletes get sucked up by mainstream sports, and is compounded by less people being that size in general - which is why lightweight tends to be the deeper ones. Pay in MMA appears to be dropping for the non-Conor's of the world too, so you see more specialist martial artists staying in their original sports (Jordan Burroughs, now Gordon Ryan etc) than perhaps in past years.

What evidence is there for pay dropping in MMA? I'm asking genuinely, not disagreeing. It's not something I've paid much attention to in years.

If he chooses to not compete in BJJ and instead focus on the niche sport of NoGi, then he could focus on winning the most championships. In ADCC he has 2 championships. There are 12 other 2 time ADCC champions,3 3 time ADCC champions and 2 4 time ADCC champions. IMO its ridiculous to be "bored" when there is so much more to accomplish.

You've never gotten bored with something that you haven't won 3+ international championships in?

 

[lechien]

Gordon Ryan is no longer bothered paying an entry fee to compete in an Ibjjf competition.....no matter how how prestigious the ibjjf events claim to be.

He prefers getting paid 10 k to fight in what you consider a niche nogi market.

 

[mataleaos]

What else is there to accomplish in BJJ?
World Championship
Pans Championship
Euros
Brasileiros
He really hasn't accomplished much in BJJ.

NoGi is niche and even ADCC is new in comparison to BJJ competition. Most of the top BJJ competitors including Buchecha train NoGi secondary to the Gi.

So to answer the question, Gordon has plenty to still accomplish in BJJ. This includes winning a World title or even a major.

If he chooses to not compete in BJJ and instead focus on the niche sport of NoGi, then he could focus on winning the most championships. In ADCC he has 2 championships. There are 12 other 2 time ADCC champions,3 3 time ADCC champions and 2 4 time ADCC champions. IMO its ridiculous to be "bored" when there is so much more to accomplish.

Nogi isn’t niche anymore man. It’s way more mainstream than at any other point. Honestly the gi and no gi worlds are diverting at a crazy rate. The days of people winning both Mundials and adcc are winding down. The statistics support this too.

Guys like JT can still do it. Lepri. A few others. But the time is winding down on that.

I love gi and no gi but I think each domain has enough right now to keep me interested and learning continuously for a lifetime

btw Gordon has 3 adcc chips. I’m not a fan of anything but his game. But he’s definitely got 3. I can see him trying to win next time double gold with all submissions

 

[Kforcer]

The whole Flo concept is very strange to me.

Everywhere on the planet, you can watch Olympic Wrestling for free, on official UWW channel in YT.

Only in USA, Flo has a monopoly of airing Olympic wrestling.
Im not even sure how they pull this off, because by definition, Olympic sports should be available to watch for free.

And then you have Flo Grappling, which obviously cannot possibly cover their own expenses by showing Sub Grappling, paying big bucks and depending on subscription (which it turns out is quite low).

So, they obviously are trying to get numbers up, by sneaking some wrestling vs grappling matches here and there (hoping wrestling fans switch), but its done in such manner, that they dont consider the viewers sentiments.

Instead of presenting a equal chance of winning in one platform and get explosive matches, they try some weird rule sets, leaving everyone confused.

Look at the last one they did:
Under sub grappling rules, Ryan disregards tap from Downey (he would get DQed for that, in a lot of major rule sets), then under wrestling rule set, Downey toys with him in such fashion, its not even funny.

Both of them walk out with a victory.

Nothing is resolved.

We have a product of a high level athlete vs
low level athlete (considering both athletes in just one set or the other):

Sub Grappling:
Ryan - high level
Downey- low level

Wrestling:
Downey - high level
Ryan - low level

Who wants to watch this?!?!

So, yeah, I think Flo is the problem.
They do have a lot of options there, that for one reason or another, they choose not to use, betting heavy on Ryan and trying to squeeze as much as possible, while its possible.

As for Quintet, Im all for it.
Its a great team tournament, using the concept of Judo team tournaments in Japan.
Nice production, but again, a bit short on money.

I was asked to put a Combat Wrestling team there, but they wanted only Japanese guys, so they wouldn't need to pay for tickets and expenses for travel.

I refused, because it is obvious they have budget for some teams and dont have budget for others

We already have a few guys in there, including Shutaro Debana, who is a CW World champ, Sambo national champ, IBJJF national champ and 2nd in Judo nationals (the guy he lost to, is a Japanese Judo national team member and Olympic champion).

I know what the contrast of payment is between such a decorated grappler and people that are just popular

If they can offer equal pay for all sides, I can send them teams in both, Combat Wrestling and Sambo, that would smoke away the competition.

Are you the guy who bought Combat Wrestling from Noriaki Kiguchi, or at least, took it over from him?

Classic Combat Wrestling was my favorite sport to watch. Takefumi Hanai, Rumina Sato, Imanari, that one heavyweight dude out of Kiguchi Dojo with the glasses...I loved it. One thing I think might be missing from the current iteration are the catch points. I think that was a cool way to show that it was different from your average grappling competition--it rewarded aggression and the pursuit of dynamic techniques and finishes, rather than passivity. I know that your version of Combat Wrestling has the same mentality but I think a reintroduction of the catch points would be a good way to enforce that attitude in the matches.

 

[The Half Blood Prince]

This is so dumb. I hear it in my gi classes all of the time and it doesn't make any sense. For every person who has more success without a gi is a person who has more success with a gi. It isn't "easier". It's a different skillet that is more natural to some.

I think usually when people say "no gi is easier" what they actually mean is "I don't like how much of the body control that wrestling teaches translates to no gi. Wrestlers who I beat easily in a gi can give me a tough match without a gi. This should not be the case."

also its cause nogi or grappling is a lot more physical and different than gi so many techniques that work in the gi obviosuly don't really work without it. So people who you use to dominate in gi all of a sudden you arent dominating them and you feel like you should so thats why they may say that, when in reality that just arent fully aware its 2 different things

 

[The Half Blood Prince]

You train in both? Because I do. I've completed on both as well. Most higher levels who come from no-gi to gi. They struggle alot with the grips and all the sweeps and subs gi offers.

Now guys from gi to nogi, they struggle with control,speed and timing. It only takes a month or so to adjust. This is proven when guys who compete in the gi in the highest level transition to nogi comps and still win.

Thats because theres more people who compete exclusively in gi than those who compete exclusively in nogi
So pretty much majority of the people who compete in nogi compete in the gi as well.

 

[Ivaylo Ivanov]

Are you the guy who bought Combat Wrestling from Noriaki Kiguchi, or at least, took it over from him?

Classic Combat Wrestling was my favorite sport to watch. Takefumi Hanai, Rumina Sato, Imanari, that one heavyweight dude out of Kiguchi Dojo with the glasses...I loved it. One thing I think might be missing from the current iteration are the catch points. I think that was a cool way to show that it was different from your average grappling competition--it rewarded aggression and the pursuit of dynamic techniques and finishes, rather than passivity. I know that your version of Combat Wrestling has the same mentality but I think a reintroduction of the catch points would be a good way to enforce that attitude in the matches.

Bought?!?!

Who buys a rule set and where do they sell'em??? Im going for Kodokan Judo next

I am the guy who formed the international federation (up until 2014 Combat Wrestling was only played in Japan)
with the permission and inclusion of Mr. Kiguchi as honorary president .

I know Mr. Kiguchi and the majority of the Combat Wrestling crowd from the time I lived and trained in Japan.

Here is something you dont know:
Over the years (from the 90s till 2005), Combat Wrestling had several changes of rules, creating more confusion that clearing the situation.

I also wrote the new rule set for the International Combat Wrestling Federation.

Catch points are confusing - anyone can claim he is going for a sub, that he actually doesnt have.

As such, catch points were taken out and replaced with 30 secs time to work on a sub, then counted as activity when forming final result (in case it goes to refs decision).

What is different, is that we take in consideration ALL grappling disciplines and give an equal chance to all to win, using only their own style.

Champions in all categories are proof for that, been representatives of various different styles every year.

 

[Kforcer]

Here is something you dont know:
Over the years (from the 90s till 2005), Combat Wrestling had several changes of rules, creating more confusion that clearing the situation.

Oh, trust me, I DEFINITELY knew that. I've looked at and compared the various Combat Wrestling rules many times. You're talking to a hardcore Combat Wrestling fan here. I remember when, briefly, they had the concept of "bottom control" as a means of scoring, for example. Like I said, it was my favorite sport to watch.

I understand what you mean about catch points being potentially confusing, but I think they generate excitement and incentives for action. The idea that a catch point was worth as much as taking mount or side mount meant that a whole different sort of incentives were at play during the matches. I don't think there is an issue as long as the referees are educated in terms of confusion. People might complain but there are always complaints.

 

[Kforcer]

Bought?!?!

Who buys a rule set and where do they sell'em??? Im going for Kodokan Judo next

I am the guy who formed the international federation (up until 2014 Combat Wrestling was only played in Japan)
with the permission and inclusion of Mr. Kiguchi as honorary president .

I know Mr. Kiguchi and the majority of the Combat Wrestling crowd from the time I lived and trained in Japan.

Here is something you dont know:
Over the years (from the 90s till 2005), Combat Wrestling had several changes of rules, creating more confusion that clearing the situation.

I also wrote the new rule set for the International Combat Wrestling Federation.

Catch points are confusing - anyone can claim he is going for a sub, that he actually doesnt have.

As such, catch points were taken out and replaced with 30 secs time to work on a sub, then counted as activity when forming final result (in case it goes to refs decision).

What is different, is that we take in consideration ALL grappling disciplines and give an equal chance to all to win, using only their own style.

Champions in all categories are proof for that, been representatives of various different styles every year.

PS--Did you hear about Takefumi Hanai's passing? He was active in the Combat Wrestling circuit and is featured in the 2005 DVD they released--they called him Ashikan Judan, just as Imanari and they had some classic matches under the Combat Wrestling rules. He cared enough about Combat Wrestling that he actually wore a National Combat Wrestling Team t-shirt into his ZST MMA matches.

Would Combat Wrestling consider doing anything to honor him during their next world championships, possibly? I think he was a big part of Combat Wrestling's history, as a National Champion and a guy who had some great highlight reel performances under the rule-set.

In any event, thanks for keeping my favorite sport alive.

 

[Ivaylo Ivanov]

Nogi isn’t niche anymore man. It’s way more mainstream than at any other point. Honestly the gi and no gi worlds are diverting at a crazy rate. The days of people winning both Mundials and adcc are winding down. The statistics support this too.

Guys like JT can still do it. Lepri. A few others. But the time is winding down on that.

I love gi and no gi but I think each domain has enough right now to keep me interested and learning continuously for a lifetime

btw Gordon has 3 adcc chips. I’m not a fan of anything but his game. But he’s definitely got 3. I can see him trying to win next time double gold with all submissions

Have you ever been to any event, concert or gathering of 80,000 people?

Consider that such events are held worldwide, every week and then check the numbers of regular followers of football.

I remember when Dana White blubbered something like"we are neck to neck with football in popularity", comparing viewership

1M to 4B.

I got to find the photos I took from a junior Wrestling event in Tokyo:
700 kids competed.

Olympic grappling (Judo, Wrestling) has so many competitors, the qualifications take several months and locations.

No Gi is a niche sport.

Im saying it as a president of a No Gi organization, that works with other sports federations as well.

 

[Ivaylo Ivanov]

PS--Did you hear about Takefumi Hanai's passing? He was active in the Combat Wrestling circuit and is featured in the 2005 DVD they released--they called him Ashikan Judan, just as Imanari and they had some classic matches under the Combat Wrestling rules. He cared enough about Combat Wrestling that he actually wore a National Combat Wrestling Team t-shirt into his ZST MMA matches.

Would Combat Wrestling consider doing anything to honor him during their next world championships, possibly? I think he was a big part of Combat Wrestling's history, as a National Champion and a guy who had some great highlight reel performances under the rule-set.

In any event, thanks for keeping my favorite sport alive.

Thank you!

PS--Did you hear about Takefumi Hanai's passing? He was active in the Combat Wrestling circuit and is featured in the 2005 DVD they released--they called him Ashikan Judan, just as Imanari and they had some classic matches under the Combat Wrestling rules. He cared enough about Combat Wrestling that he actually wore a National Combat Wrestling Team t-shirt into his ZST MMA matches.

Would Combat Wrestling consider doing anything to honor him during their next world championships, possibly? I think he was a big part of Combat Wrestling's history, as a National Champion and a guy who had some great highlight reel performances under the rule-set.

In any event, thanks for keeping my favorite sport alive.

Thank you!

Currently, in Japan is not possible to hold any sport events, but as soon as it is (next month), the JCWA will update schedule and will most probably host a tribute to Mr. Hanai.

 

[Ivaylo Ivanov]

What else is there to accomplish in BJJ?
World Championship
Pans Championship
Euros
Brasileiros
He really hasn't accomplished much in BJJ.

NoGi is niche and even ADCC is new in comparison to BJJ competition. Most of the top BJJ competitors including Buchecha train NoGi secondary to the Gi.

So to answer the question, Gordon has plenty to still accomplish in BJJ. This includes winning a World title or even a major.

If he chooses to not compete in BJJ and instead focus on the niche sport of NoGi, then he could focus on winning the most championships. In ADCC he has 2 championships. There are 12 other 2 time ADCC champions,3 3 time ADCC champions and 2 4 time ADCC champions. IMO its ridiculous to be "bored" when there is so much more to accomplish.

This.

 

[Ivaylo Ivanov]

Gordon Ryan is no longer bothered paying an entry fee to compete in an Ibjjf competition.....no matter how how prestigious the ibjjf events claim to be.

He prefers getting paid 10 k to fight in what you consider a niche nogi market.

How is that not running away from competition?

Super fights for $10K is fine and dandy, but its one opponent event.

ADCC Worlds would be at least 3 tough opponents.

Winning 5 ADCC titles would be an accomplishment, suitable for the title of a King.

Ryan is just way ahead of himself.