If Gordon Ryan's not going to MMA anymore.....

[kenetics]

i didnt mean just big strong guys but from what i noticed theirs a gym ran by a roid head and almost all his students are ex amateur mma fighters then they got into bjj once mma died out of tapout phase they hate grappling without a gi due to not able to hold guys with their grips the main coach isnt very technical at all but is able to stall and win about half his matches in the gi masters divisions but never wins when he competes no gi vs blues/purples

I run mma school and require the mma guy to train at least one time a week in gi if they want to be promoted in BJJ. I think it's up to the coach to set standards for all students. We have a great group of guys who enjoy both.

Of course we will always favor what we are more good at when it comes to GI or nogi.

 

[tekkenfan]

I run mma school and require the mma guy to train at least one time a week in gi if they want to be promoted in BJJ. I think it's up to the coach to set standards for all students. We have a great group of guys who enjoy both.

Of course we will always favor what we are more good at when it comes to GI or nogi.

i also believe mma fighters should do gi once a week i still do i dont really play gi today but i do to make sure to keep my base in check having people pulling on your lapel and sleeves really helps to make your base better when no gi you dont have that i feel if jake shields would been even better on top if he did more gi in his life

 

[The Half Blood Prince]

He did say in this video he's goal was to compete at the highest level in MMA while simtutaneously competing at the highest level in grappling

But I think his goal probably changed and we wont see him in MMA. Especially since he was able to buy his home from BJJ alone. The risk to reward for MMA is simply not worth it when he can simply earn so much in BJJ as he is at the top

 

[kpoz12]

Gordon vs Jon Jones Combat Jiu jitsu, who wins?

 

[Ivaylo Ivanov]

He did say in this video he's goal was to compete at the highest level in MMA while simtutaneously competing at the highest level in grappling

But I think his goal probably changed and we wont see him in MMA. Especially since he was able to buy his home from BJJ alone. The risk to reward for MMA is simply not worth it when he can simply earn so much in BJJ as he is at the top

Maybe also he realized that to compete at the highest level in MMA, he needs to climb the ranks, starting in organization like One FC, Rizin or Belator, where they would pay him according his viewership value (in MMA credits, quite low).

Here, let me give you an example how it works:

Some years ago, when Kron was making his MMA debut, he started in a Japanese MMA organization, called Real FC.
The owner, Mr. Yamada was a close friend of mine (we use to train together at Axis BJJ, Tokyo for a few years).

Mr. Yamada asked me to find suitable opponent for Kron, knowing my connections in the Sambo world.

I presented him Marko Kosev (BUL), a 5 times Combat Sambo world champ.

Mr. Yamada offered a $1.500 pay and a ticket.

I said thats ridiculous payment for a 5 x world champ, making a point that Kron is getting paid over $50,000 and he havent won the BJJ worlds even once.

Mr. Yamada's reply was simple:
"He is a Gracie. His name fills stadiums in Japan".

And then proceeded to book some bum from Korea, then his organization went under, because of lack of general interest in MMA (Pride scandal was still fresh atm).

Ive had similar experience, booking Sambo and IMMAF world champs for fights in One FC, against athletes, such as Aoki, Kotetsu Boku and etc.

Event organizers dont give a shit about your titles, if they dont transfer to viewership.

Ryan might look huge for his fans or in sub grappling forums, such as F12, but those are very small communities, considering serious sport industries (football has 4 billion viewers. FOUR. BILLION).

Final example:
I run a sub grappling organization and from last year, we have started doing small pro events.
When Flo Grappling decided to run some "hybrid rule set" events, in order to attract more viewership from wrestling (because their existence depends on viewership), a lot of people hit me up, to offer the Combat Wrestling platform for the matches between BJJ and Wrestling super stars.

We sat down and ran some analysis.

All I can say is, the numbers of people, interested in seeing such event, in the way Flo went with it, doesnt add up to the payment the athletes make.

Viewers numbers for pro sub grappling events are so low, that Im surprised events with big names are not going under at higher rate.

On top of that, the trend, set by McGregor in MMA, transferred into Sub Grappling and now a lot of people are behaving like 7 years old kids, talking about someone's mom, just to get attention for an event.

You dont see that in the Olympic Wrestling and Judo, you dont do that in Sambo or any other self respecting sport.

And you definitely are making a fool out of yourself, barking at Olympic Wrestling champs, knowing they are in preparation for an Olympic title (hence, impossible to compete in anything else, but their own, tight calendar) and then claim "he ran".
No, he didnt.
He doesnt even know you exist.

 

[SandisLL]

And then proceeded to book some bum from Korea, then his organization went under, because of lack of general interest in MMA (Pride scandal was still fresh atm).

Of course, for this low price they were not able to find anyone even half decent.
In Japan waiter might earn these 1500 bucks in 1 month without a doubt, if is working in big city.
And this sambo champ most likely is able to earn these 1500 bucks and more with privates each month after all expenses and taxes paid out.
----
Regards to Conor, his boxing skills never had been enough to qualify for hated amateurs high level tournament at european level. He isn't even mediocre level amateur boxer. OKey, fitness level, but if someone had saw Ireland 16-18 years old kids boxing in amateurs, if is not total idiot, had to admit that Conor never had even this level in pure boxing. Therefore he at 19 y.o age was MMA guy .
-
Okey, MMA is different sport, no offense here.
Regards to his boxing skills, what places he had in amateur tournaments in Ireland or elswhere? Really somewhere had to get even in 1-3 rd place in Ireland, yeah, even amateurs teens? Cos level in Ireland, like in U.K is enough high not to start even dream about 5-8 th place in amateurs.

 

[Ivaylo Ivanov]

Westerners frequently think that it is big pride to fight with well known names.


Of course, for this low price they were not able to find anyone even half decent.
In Japan waiter might earn these 1500 bucks in 1 month without a doubt, if is working in big city.
And this sambo champ most likely is able to earn these 1500 bucks and more with privates each month after all expenses and taxes paid out.
----
Regards to Conor, his boxing skills never had been enough to qualify for hated amateurs tournament at european level. He isn't even mediocre level amateur boxer. OKey, fitness level, but if someone had saw Ireland 16-18 years old kids boxing in amateurs, if is not total idiot, had to admit that Conor never had even this level in pure boxing. Therefore he at 19 y.o age was professional MMA guy that had some opponents that had been paid 400 to compete with him. Not top level amateur boxers from Ireland in ring with him. LOL.

The event in question was taking place in Japan.
No westerners viewership was even considered.

As for the Sambo champ, he owns a factory in his own town
A $1.500 for him is a small change.

I know that people here do not follow, but in a lot of countries, Sambo champions are well taken care off, by their own government, state and corporate sponsors.
Those are not people, that need to do privates for living.

Examples above are to illustrate the business side of match making, events organization and public perception about athletes.

Let me put it simple:
1. How does Flo Grappling make money?
2. How many people are paying subscription and PPVs for Flo Grappling events?
3. How many subscribers does Flo Wrestling has?
4. How many Wrestling fans paid to watch Ryan been teched in a few seconds and were happy with it?

I highly doubt such events will continue, since it doesnt make sense to pay big bucks to athletes and watch obvious results:
The sub grappler will sub and the wrestler will tech, in their respective rule sets.
What is achieved?
Nothing.

 

[SandisLL]

No westerners viewership was even considered.

I of course already get it, but also living expenses in Japan etc.
So I compared average casual japanesse male and 1500$ per month for example.

 

[Ivaylo Ivanov]

I of course already get it, but also living expenses in Japan etc.
So I compared average casual japanesse male and 1500$ per month for example.

A $1500 in Japan will not cover your monthly expenses.
This is a very low entry position job salary.

 

[SandisLL]

I agree, therefore I mentioned waiter in big city, Sir.

 

[Ivaylo Ivanov]

I agree, therefore I mentioned waiter in big city, Sir.

Over the years, I managed night clubs in Osaka and Tokyo.
Even the dish washer was getting at least $2000 a month

 

[SandisLL]

Then even better to compare with 1500$ offer for MMA fight.

 

[Ivaylo Ivanov]

Then even better to compare with 1500$ offer for MMA fight.

Exactly
So, imagine how much would Ryan will be offered to fight in such organization.
And his inspiration, to compete at the top level of MMA...

To get there, he will need to get paychecks like this, then score some wins over mediocre fighters, become a champ in B or C level organization, before he could even get a chance to fight in undercard in UFC and get $5000.

And no, he isnt becoming UFC champ anytime soon.

So, here it is.

He is taken care of by Flo Grappling and a few other brands.
He is participating only in events, where he has best chance to win or claim moral victory.
Not a bad strategy, so far.
General Sub Grappling population sees him as a demigod

People, that have been around this scene for as long as I am, have seen this already multiple times.

Hence I can predict the outcome

 

[sb413197]

The skill level in the gi is a lot higher IMHO.

Agree. Gi BJJ is a super small niche sport already, and no-gi/submission grappling is a niche subset of that niche subset. Would like to see him get out there and do some gi BJJ

 

[DatCutman]

I won't take a side in the eternal Gi vs. NoGi debate, but I think it's accurate to say Gi is very, very different from NoGi. Nicky Rod isn't burning up black belt gi worlds any time soon, after all. I'm sure Gordon realized it was starting off with a long way to go, and it's hard to get motivated to do that in something you don't find fun.

Similarly it was probably disheartening to learn his wrestling and jits also needed to be married with striking and ground-striking skill. MMA is different than NoGi jits. Maybe he learned getting punched isn't that fun.

I think there is a reason ol' Gordy came out of retirement in No Gi competing.

 

[Based and White Pilled]

Umm GI is much harder to be good at

This is so dumb. I hear it in my gi classes all of the time and it doesn't make any sense. For every person who has more success without a gi is a person who has more success with a gi. It isn't "easier". It's a different skillet that is more natural to some.

I think usually when people say "no gi is easier" what they actually mean is "I don't like how much of the body control that wrestling teaches translates to no gi. Wrestlers who I beat easily in a gi can give me a tough match without a gi. This should not be the case."

 

[redapplecigz]

GR will go to WWE and make about 500k/ year before taxes. Much better financial opportunity than UFC. Vince Mcamahon will pay him they don’t have many athletic ppl there now currently

 

[kenetics]

This is so dumb. I hear it in my gi classes all of the time and it doesn't make any sense. For every person who has more success without a gi is a person who has more success with a gi. It isn't "easier". It's a different skillet that is more natural to some.

I think usually when people say "no gi is easier" what they actually mean is "I don't like how much of the body control that wrestling teaches translates to no gi. Wrestlers who I beat easily in a gi can give me a tough match without a gi. This should not be the case."

You train in both? Because I do. I've completed on both as well. Most higher levels who come from no-gi to gi. They struggle alot with the grips and all the sweeps and subs gi offers.

Now guys from gi to nogi, they struggle with control,speed and timing. It only takes a month or so to adjust. This is proven when guys who compete in the gi in the highest level transition to nogi comps and still win.

 

[Based and White Pilled]

You train in both? Because I do. I've completed on both as well. Most higher levels who come from no-gi to gi. They struggle alot with the grips and all the sweeps and subs gi offers.

Now guys from gi to nogi, they struggle with control,speed and timing. It only takes a month or so to adjust. This is proven when guys who compete in the gi in the highest level transition to nogi comps and still win.

Yes, I do.

I came on stronger than I should've because I get annoyed after years of hearing guys complain or make excuses about losing or having tough no-gi rolls with guys they handle easily in a gi. They act like the fact that the guy's no-gi ability originated outside of BJJ cheapens it in some way.

I understand what you're saying. The talent pool in gi is a bit deeper because there are more participants and because the participants have generally been doing it longer. I wouldn't argue against the idea that winning a world championship in gi slightly more impressive than no-gi because of the talent pool, but I don't think it's a huge difference. There are plenty of examples of BJJ champs who didn't medal at ADCC.

A much bigger factor than the difference in depth of talent is that the skills simply transfer better one way than the other. It's the same as the fact that wrestlers can come into MMA and win a lot more frequently than the reverse would ever happen. This is because the rules of wrestling prevent almost anything from MMA from transferring effectively. It is not because wrestling is harder than MMA, as evidenced by the many wrestlers who didn't have great success in MMA or didn't match the success they had in wrestling.

 

[kenetics]

Yes, I do.

I came on stronger than I should've because I get annoyed after years of hearing guys complain or make excuses about losing or having tough no-gi rolls with guys they handle easily in a gi. They act like the fact that the guy's no-gi ability originated outside of BJJ cheapens it in some way.

I understand what you're saying. The talent pool in gi is a bit deeper because there are more participants and because the participants have generally been doing it longer. I wouldn't argue against the idea that winning a world championship in gi slightly more impressive than no-gi because of the talent pool, but I don't think it's a huge difference. There are plenty of examples of BJJ champs who didn't medal at ADCC.

A much bigger factor than the difference in depth of talent is that the skills simply transfer better one way than the other. It's the same as the fact that wrestlers can come into MMA and win a lot more frequently than the reverse would ever happen. This is because the rules of wrestling prevent almost anything from MMA from transferring effectively. It is not because wrestling is harder than MMA, as evidenced by the many wrestlers who didn't have great success in MMA or didn't match the success they had in wrestling.

I agree both are difficult in their own way.