If Charles can beat Islam and Gaethe (no easy task) he has done more than Khabib ever did

MCS said:
It matters, but not enough to surpass dominance. Khabib dominated 28/29 fights. Whole career dominance aside from 1 fight, which he won. Charles has 8 losses. And in wins he's close to losing.

So there's a big discrepancy here in dominance. Charles would need to break Khabib's record and then some, have a long win streak, because the losses vs zero losses count.
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I'm not sure why you keep bringing up 8 losses. The OP clearly states at LW. You guys are trying to use results from a completely different weight class in order to discredit a fighter. It's odd.
 
MCS said:
No, Khabib has no losses. Charles has a lot of them. The dominance counts. Charles would need to go on some run.
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Charles is on a pretty fucking impressive run. 10 in a row, all finishes (striking and subs). If he beat Gaethje and Islam it would be 12. If that's not a run idk what is.
 
Garnet_StrongerThanYou said:
Khabib has no losses because he didn’t fight many good people until he got the title.

And he arguably lost to Tibau.
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Oliveira has like 2.5 the amounts of UFC fights that Khabib had. Khabib only fought 12 or 13 times in the UFC. Oliveira has fought like 28-32 times in the UFC. If Khabib had that many top quality fights he'd eventually accumulate losses.

Context matters.

Isn't Oliveira on a 10 fight win streak? If he wins 2 or 3 more times his win streak is as many wins UFC as Khabib's entire career.
 
Garnet_StrongerThanYou said:
okay. Charles fought way more dangerous people. Quantity wise.


Do you really believe that if Khabib fought all the guys Charles fought he would still be undefeated?


Never getting caught once?
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Especially considering that Khabib is OLDER than Oliveira. Oliveira has been fighting tough guys in the UFC since he was 20 while Khabib was padding his record like a boxing prospect until he started to enter his prime.

Admittedly, Khabib's career from 2014-2020 is much more impressive than Oliveira's. The gap in those 6 years is so wide that I think Olives will need to break the LW defense record to even be in the discussion for LW GOAT.
 
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LoveMyMMA said:
Khabib was doing two, three of those fights per night.
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2 round fights. Big fucking deal. The Invicta Rising series is 3 fights per night, but still only a maximum of 5 rounds per night. Khabib was still fighting nobodies.

That’s a weak post.
 
MCS said:
Khabib also faced top guys. I believe 6 ranked ones. Dominated all of them. So he'd be heavily favored against the next one by oddsmakers.

Charles wasn't before and isn't now. It's not only because he's been stopped 7 times, but because he gets nearly finished in recent wins. Khabib got briefly stunned against one of the 6 ranked guys he faced.

So Charles' level of competition isn't enough to surpass Khabib's dominance.
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Charles may not dominate, but he has a higher finish rate (90%) than khabib (65%). Finishing your opponents is certainly more impressive than decisioning them, no?
 
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Charles has been ascending over his career but I wouldn't say done more than Khabib. His fight bio is still being written though and if he pulls off those two wins we can have that conversation.
 
Mike said:
Because when you're talking about who's the best ever, you have to take every factor into consideration. If two guys have similar resumes and one guy has no losses, while another has many, then clearly the guy with no losses pulls ahead. Far ahead. That's pretty standard in combat sports, and sports in general.

It makes sense to say an early career loss isn't representative of that fighters full potential, sure. It doesn't make sense to say those losses somehow don't count, when comparing two fighters and deciding who had the better career. Getting two more title defenses would be great, sure. No way in hell would that somehow make Oliveira the lightweight goat over a guy with a similar resume and zero losses.
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Not if the guy with more losses has fought more often, fought more high level guys, has more wins, and also has a significantly higher finish percentage than the guy who never lost.

It seems to be the khabib fans that aren't taking everything into consideration, and instead they focus on his "dominance" while belittling several other factors.
 
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Marko Polo said:
Khabib fought Mcgregor, Poirier and Gaethje all in a row. People need to stop saying this garbage
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Those were after he got the title though. I'm not sure if you're actually disagreeing with that post (I do disagree with it).
 
MCS said:
It matters, but not enough to surpass dominance. Khabib dominated 28/29 fights. Whole career dominance aside from 1 fight, which he won. Charles has 8 losses. And in wins he's close to losing.

So there's a big discrepancy here in dominance. Charles would need to break Khabib's record and then some, have a long win streak, because the losses vs zero losses count.
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Dude, it was easy to dominate his first 20 fights. Charles was fighting way better competition than khabib was . Zero losses mean nothing when fighting alot of bums. Your supposed to win those. I give him credit for his last few fights but please stop with the undefeated thing. He retired at 32..
 
Thsts an obvious agree .... especially the upset of Islam combined with his evolvement over the past several years.

Khabib in his own special / rare circumstances as he disqualified himself from goat talk due to his unlikely premature retirement.

I happen to think that nurmagomedov wouldve went on to become an upper tier goat ........at least .However that just gets filed under one man's opinion. He HAS TO ACTUALLY GO OUT AND DO IT.
 
hswrestler said:
Oliveira surely wasn't facing a 0-0 fighter in his 14th fight
View attachment 910558
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Same concept as Fedor's win streak. It's a lot easier to do, and much less impressive, when they're fighting subpar competition. The value isn't there. Yeah, streaks are impressive, but Fulton isn't considered an ATG for his streaks. There's a reason. Rabid fanbases go a long way, though.
 
Sweater of AV said:
Those were after he got the title though. I'm not sure if you're actually disagreeing with that post (I do disagree with it).
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It’s irrelevant when he beat them, unless they’re 80 years old and he does it in the old folks home. It’s a straw man argument, but he still beat 3 of the best fighters on the roster (at the time) in a row
 
MCS said:
I think he beat Tibau, but was a close fight.

He faced enough good guys to show the level. Poirier, Conor, Gaethje, RDA, Barboza had basically no chance in those fights. If they don't have the next 2 likely won't as well. The dominance.
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Dustin and Conor are former featherweight, barboza is a current featherweight, RDA is a gatekeeper and Justin is a white belt
 
do a moniker said:
Yea you are missing the point. Dana has literally said he couldn’t get khabib a fight for several periods of time. Injuries aside, no one was signing up to fight them. It’s not a “ducking” thing, it’s a casual head shake “no” when Dana would pitch the fight. They have always been in that awkward stage
Of being ranked too low but everyone knowing they were killers. Saying it’s from their time off and manufactured schedule is just plain wrong. Many years before he had a title shot, the whole mma community knew that khabib was a total freak. I know several ufc fighters personally and I would ask them about khabib, and they would laugh and just say how other worldly he was
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"Injuries aside'. That's a HUGE aside lol
 
Marko Polo said:
It’s irrelevant when he beat them, unless they’re 80 years old and he does it in the old folks home. It’s a straw man argument, but he still beat 3 of the best fighters on the roster (at the time) in a row
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Yes, but that isn't contradicting what he said. If you believe he did fight good people before the title then I can see having an issue. Otherwise, I'm not sure what the problem is.
 
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