Ideas on how to stop women getting stoned to death in the Middle East

[LucasWithLidOff]

What exactly should people be defending?

Apologists for Islam seem to want to defend the indefensible. Yet rather than defend, they instead deflect to Israel, the west, or just resort to calling people bigots.

Pretty sad coming from a so called enlightened people.

 

[Zeke's Chaingun]

with all due respect, your post demonstrates you do not get my point.

Religion is neither good nor bad, nor can it affect anything. It the believers of said religion, unfortunately usually the extremists that cause the problems.

Islam can be used for just as much positive and good as christen/jew beliers.

A religion is not harmful if no one believes in it. This is true. It is when people start believing in it that they can use it to find Ultimate Authority to commit the atrocities they commit.

 

[KnightTemplar]

With Pakistan it actually got worse, as reading their history it seems they were less radicalized during their founding as a nation. The ethnic cleansing of minorities has taken an real upswing the past decade.

It's certainly not getting any better over there. A Pakistani woman was stoned to death today by her own father and brothers for the "crime" of marrying the "wrong" man.

 

[EleazarI**]

I don't Pakistan to be Middle Eastern and honor killings seem to be more associated with Indo/Pak culture than Islam itself

 

[Zankou]

I don't Pakistan to be Middle Eastern and honor killings seem to be more associated with Indo/Pak culture than Islam itself

Pakistan is Islamic whenever Islamic law justifies them acting even worse, and Pakistan is non-Islamic when following Islam would require them to behave better. The guiding principle is that, at all times, pick out and follow whatever is worst.

In the case of honor killings, Islam strictly and clearly forbids forced marriages, so in order to be assholes the Pakistanis joyously embrace the Indo/Pak village tradition of forced marriages and reject the comparatively enlightened Islamic teachings on this point.

On the other hand, when it comes to things like child marriage that are in fact endorsed by Shariah, suddenly the Pakistanis strictly follow Islamic law and tradition. That way they combine the worst of all religions and traditions. It's actually rather remarkable.

 

[speakhandsforme]

Has anyone said "ban stones" yet? Because someone is always brilliant enough to think of that joke. It's hilarious and original.

 

[speakhandsforme]

I really wouldn't care if the whole culture was completely destroyed. I don't feel it adds anything of value to the planet at all. Bunch of fucking dirtbags, in my opinion.

You do know that the Middle East is home of the oldest recorded civilizations, right?. While its inhabitants may not have evolved as gracefully as one would hope, bombing and destroying entire culture would be culturally/historically devastating to the world.

 

[The Clamburglar]

You do know that the Middle East is home of the oldest recorded civilizations, right?. While its inhabitants may not have evolved as gracefully as one would hope, bombing and destroying entire culture would be culturally/historically devastating to the world.

Sometimes the best way to fix something is to tear it down and build a new one.

 

[speakhandsforme]

Sometimes the best way to fix something is to tear it down and build a new one.

That philosophy doesn't make any sense applied to what we're talking about.

 

[The Clamburglar]

That philosophy doesn't make any sense applied to what we're talking about.

Sure it does. I believe that that culture is beyond repair and the only way it could be "fixed" would be to reset it completely.

If you don't agree with me that is fine, I'm not asking you to, nor do I care how you feel about it, but feel free to keep responding.

 

[Michaelangelo]

Read a book called "the Koran"

There is no stoning in the Quran.

 

[KnightTemplar]

You do know that the Middle East is home of the oldest recorded civilizations, right?. While its inhabitants may not have evolved as gracefully as one would hope, bombing and destroying entire culture would be culturally/historically devastating to the world.

It's true that in the past the Islamic culture was more advanced than European Christian nations. Unfortunately, Islamic culture has largely stagnated over the course of several centuries.

To be brutally honest, the only valid reason for not destroying the Middle East is the Oil.

 

[Zankou]

There is no stoning in the Quran.

According to the hadith, there used to verses on stoning in the Qur'an, as well as on the "suckling of adults" by women, but a goat ate them, so they didn't make it into the final Qur'an.

I kid you not.

[Narrated 'Aisha] "The verse of the stoning and of suckling an adult ten times were revealed, and they were (written) on a paper and kept under my bed. When the messenger of Allah expired and we were preoccupied with his death, a goat entered and ate away the paper."

There is speculation on what this means, but the most likely critical account is that later editors of the Qur'an (probably many decades after Mohammed's death) were disgusted by these particular verses and deleted them in the course of compiling the manuscript we know as the Qur'an. But because these verse were already known and controversial, people still remembered that they had formerly been given, and the hadith about Aisha is a reference to that.

The traditional Muslim explanation is that these verses were deleted because they were 'abrograted,' which doesn't exactly make much sense given that so many verses in the Qur'an were also allegedly abrogated by later revelations, but still left in. Here you can see the traditional Muslim account of why the Qur'an that we know does not include the revealed verses about stoning or women suckling adults:

http://ya-mujeeb.com/index.php/shar...an-adult-ten-times-were-revealed-and-they-wer

Weird shit, that's for sure.

 

[Michaelangelo]

I remember reading an article by a Pakistani writer complaining, after the disastrous 2010 Pakistan floods, that there seemed to be no global push to aid the Pakistanis similar to what you saw emerge after the Southeast Asian tsunami. Can't find that article, but here's a similar one.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2010/aug/10/pakistan-flood-international-aid

And you wonder why? It's almost as though the Pakistanis aren't *grateful* for such aid, almost as though they *don't deserve it*, almost as though they *hate and despise the people giving them the aid.* Again though, that attitude has less to do with Pakistan being Islamic and more to do with it being basically the worst country on earth.

Lol yeah that's the reason. Why would you even give credence to such bs generalizing a whole population. The Taliban were trying to stop aid from getting in because they wanted to encourage riots and then be the suppliers of aid. The government was also to blame for their corruption and ineptitude.

 

[Zankou]

Lol yeah that's the reason. Why would you even give credence to such bs generalizing a whole population. The Taliban were trying to stop aid from getting in because they wanted to encourage riots and then be the suppliers of aid. The government was also to blame for their corruption and ineptitude.

Yeah, it's just the Taliban that hates us, otherwise the Pakistanis love us and appreciate all the money we dump on them. Oh wait, actually 74% of Pakistanis, from every group, call the US their "enemy" when polled.

http://www.pewglobal.org/2012/06/27/pakistani-public-opinion-ever-more-critical-of-u-s/

But even though they hate us (generalizations that reflect statistical reality are called facts), at least they love our aid, right?

"Moreover, roughly four-in-ten believe that American economic and military aid is actually having a negative impact on their country, while only about one-in-ten think the impact is positive."

I can't imagine why people aren't eager to give these guys more aid money. There are only about 170 other nations or so that are vastly more deserving of it, and appreciative for it.

 

[speakhandsforme]

Sure it does. I believe that that culture is beyond repair and the only way it could be "fixed" would be to reset it completely.

If you don't agree with me that is fine, I'm not asking you to, nor do I care how you feel about it, but feel free to keep responding.

You're missing the point of the discussion. You said that they offer nothing to the world culturally--- that's an incredibly simple minded thing to say. The Middle East contains most of our only connections to ancient civilizations and cultures which predate standards modes of communication and scholarship. You're forgetting that this region was once the epicenter of social and technological progression and contains much history as such. There's a reason why people all over the world, Westerners and Sherdoggers included, were disgusted when that Assyrian statue was destroyed a few weeks ago: because we all should appreciate our history as a species and what led us to our current state.

In summation, by destroying the Middle East, we would burn a bridge to thousands of years of history, with which we have an already-waning connection. You can say they aren't currently contributing to positive cultural innovation at the pace of other regions, sure. But to say that the area should be destroyed in the name of culture makes you sound like a moron. You can't "start over" with historicity.

And I'm not sure why you're getting your panties in a bunch. I'm simply pointing out that what you originally said is objectively wrong.

It's true that in the past the Islamic culture was more advanced than European Christian nations. Unfortunately, Islamic culture has largely stagnated over the course of several centuries.

To be brutally honest, the only valid reason for not destroying the Middle East is the Oil.

As I'm sure you know. Middle Eastern culture predates Islam. Hell, that statue that was recently destroyed (reference above) alone is twice the age of Islam (at least post-Muhammad Islam).

 

[LucasWithLidOff]

I wouldn't piss on Pakistan if it were on fire. BTW, Pakistan is SE Asian, not the ME.

 

[Michaelangelo]

Yeah, it's just the Taliban that hates us, otherwise the Pakistanis love us and appreciate all the money we dump on them.

Oh wait, actually 74% of Pakistanis, from every group, call the US their "enemy" when polled.

http://www.pewglobal.org/2012/06/27/pakistani-public-opinion-ever-more-critical-of-u-s/

But they love our aid.

"Moreover, roughly four-in-ten believe that American economic and military aid is actually having a negative impact on their country, while only about one-in-ten think the impact is positive."

I can't imagine why people aren't eager to give these guys more aid money. There are only about 170 other nations or so that are more deserving of it.

Arent we talking about donations for relief?

Why would a family who have been through hell refuse aid?

 

[MicroBrew]

You're still missing his point.

For religion to brainwash people there must be a person leading the brainwashing. That person can choose how they teach the religion - if they choose to teach violence then violence will be the outcome. If they choose to teach peace then peace will be the outcome.

It's not the religion. it's the people communicating it to others.

A person in a Muslim dominant country can just pick up a Quran even if no one teaches it to him, and upon reading the book, they can subscribe to its supremacist ideals if they believe it is divine knowledge or they are just opportunits.

Even if you use the excuse of blaming the teacher for the brainwashing, this person is using the proclamations in the Quran to teach hatred; this person did not invent the intolerance and hatred in the Quran.

 

[speakhandsforme]

BTW, Pakistan is SE Asian, not the ME.

Afghanistan and Pakistan are generally considered Middle Eastern countries. The cultural distinction exists most vividly between the divisions of Afghanistan/India and Pakistan/India.

https://www.google.com/search?q=the...4BA&ved=0CAgQ_AUoAQ&biw=1680&bih=941#imgdii=_


Also, I don't know of anyone that considered Pakistan to be located in SE Asia. Perhaps you meant Central Asia? SE Asia is Thailand and Indonesia.