I kinda have a problem with Wilder’s coaches

[nonoob]

the record shows, James Quick Tillis extended Mike and came within a couple rounds of beating him, then we have Mitch Green who wasn't a great fighter but a tough, big guy. Tyson goes back to crushing cans for a bit before fighting more top guys. His Berbick kayo is highlight reel stuff forever but he was extended by Bonecrusher Smith, had to land a zillion punches to take out Pinklon Thomas, Tony Tucker took him to a decision. Joe Frazier had an interesting theory and didn't think Mike hit that hard, Alex Wallau once said it wasn't the power, it was the speed and quickness.

Most of the easy kayoes he got are almost all either clubfighters, smaller guys or guys not known for their toughness and durability (Carl Williams). Many other guys he won in his prime by keeping up the workrate that he couldn't later on, not one punch kayoes. He tore Biggs a new asshole but it was a steady beating (which is what he clamed he intended). Ok, he finished some good fighters, he didn't even look to shake up some others. I'm not saying he wasn't a good/great puncher just that it wasn't what his highlight reel would suggest.

Not to derail, there was No Badder boxer than Tyson before Buster upset him. He was unstoppable from his first fight and continued ALL through the '80's - PERIOD. His training went to hell from drugs, alcohol, and personal problems before the Douglas fight and he never regained what he had before - disciplin.

No one before him wanted to fight champs from other organizations. Mike Called them ALL OUT... and took the belt from every one of them. Mike became the top dog, BADDEST MAN On The Planet For Years - with ZERO doubt.

 

[Gas121]

Wilder may have avoided some of them but the most dangerous of the ones you listed, Povetkin, he tried to fight. This was back in 2016. He was even willing to go to Povetkin's backyard. The latter popped and the fight was canceled but it was already signed and a done deal.

I'm surprised Wilder would have wanted to try his luck with Povetkin and it's probably just as well he didn't lol. I'm almost certain Povetkin would have absolutely flattened Wilder. He was a real problem but nobody was that keen on fighting him at his most dangerous.

 

[Jonny Ninja]

Wilder may have avoided some of them but the most dangerous of the ones you listed, Povetkin, he tried to fight. This was back in 2016. He was even willing to go to Povetkin's backyard. The latter popped and the fight was canceled but it was already signed and a done deal.

I dont know too much about this but it all seems a bit suss to me. Povetkin got popped, the mandatory cancelled but he was never banned, and almost nothing mentioned in the media about it. Why wasn’t he banned or at least investigated for his failed test?

 

[Jonny Ninja]

I'm surprised Wilder would have wanted to try his luck with Povetkin and it's probably just as well he didn't lol. I'm almost certain Povetkin would have absolutely flattened Wilder. He was a real problem but nobody was that keen on fighting him at his most dangerous.

It was a mandatory, not wilders choice to fight povetkin. I’m sure they were glad not to have to fight him in the end because he’d have ran through him. Looking at wilders losses, povetkin is about as bad a match up for wilder as any recent HW. It wouldn’t have gone long

 

[Kovalev's "Man Bag"]

I dont know too much about this but it all seems a bit suss to me. Povetkin got popped, the mandatory cancelled but he was never banned, and almost nothing mentioned in the media about it. Why wasn’t he banned or at least investigated for his failed test?

Deontay Wilder sues Alexander Povetkin over cancellation | ESPN

It was big news at the time. Povetkin wasn't banned that I recall but that's probably because he didn't pop for anything too serious. Meldonium isn't much of a PED and it was just added to WADA's banned substances list only months before Povetkin was caught with it in his system. They sell it over-the-counter there in Russia.

 

[Kovalev's "Man Bag"]

I'm surprised Wilder would have wanted to try his luck with Povetkin and it's probably just as well he didn't lol. I'm almost certain Povetkin would have absolutely flattened Wilder. He was a real problem but nobody was that keen on fighting him at his most dangerous.

Povetkin was his WBC mandatory but Wilder could've likely gotten out of it, stalled it, asked for an exception, or paid step-aside money. Yeah, the 2016 version of Povetkin was a terrible match-up for Wilder stylistically. As bad as it gets, really.

 

[Givvee]

No. None of the guys you mentioned or as slick or as mobile as Fury. Lol

If you look at his earlier resume, his knockout resume mostly consisted of cab drivers, Fury is also very overrated, he lost to a guy who was 0-0 in his own sport.

 

[Givvee]

the record shows, James Quick Tillis extended Mike and came within a couple rounds of beating him, then we have Mitch Green who wasn't a great fighter but a tough, big guy. Tyson goes back to crushing cans for a bit before fighting more top guys. His Berbick kayo is highlight reel stuff forever but he was extended by Bonecrusher Smith, had to land a zillion punches to take out Pinklon Thomas, Tony Tucker took him to a decision. Joe Frazier had an interesting theory and didn't think Mike hit that hard, Alex Wallau once said it wasn't the power, it was the speed and quickness.

Whatever the case, the downside was that if he hit a Buster Douglas or an Evander and they didn't drop like a sack of potatoes or get scared, he'd be in trouble. Most of the easy kayoes he got are almost all either clubfighters, smaller guys or guys not known for their toughness and durability (Carl Williams). Many other guys he won in his prime by keeping up the workrate that he couldn't later on, not one punch kayoes. He tore Biggs a new asshole but it was a steady beating (which is what he clamed he intended). Ok, he finished some good fighters, he didn't even look to shake up some others. I'm not saying he wasn't a good/great puncher just that it wasn't what his highlight reel would suggest.

Tony Tucker was a great fighter, even an older Tucker took a young, prime Lennox to a decision.

 

[WklySportsMemes]

If you look at his earlier resume, his knockout resume mostly consisted of cab drivers, Fury is also very overrated, he lost to a guy who was 0-0 in his own sport.

I dont have look at his resume. I followed his entire career since the Olympics.

Pro tip, thats how boxing works. Lmao
Everyone's early resume consists of padded competition to build experience , confidence, and get rounds in. Thats traditionally how it works. Then they have whats called step up fights once they feel its time. Especially for a guy who didn't start boxing until an adult in his twenties fighting people who have been doing it their whole life. Even hall of fame all time greats who fought since they were kids follow this same process.

The eastern European/Russians & Cubans who don't follow this process at times is because they have had hundreds of armature fights and have been fighting in the ams since they were school kids.

Fury beat Ngannou. You just demonstrated above you know very little about the sport or how it works. You told on yourself a bit. So I am not interested in you rewriting factual events & creating fan fiction for something you are clearly new to.

 

[GolovKing]

I remember the last shot Wilder landed in one of those Ortiz fights was an uppercut that put him away. I believe it was their first encounter. Wilder also has a stiff jab. He just doesn't use it nearly as often as he should.

You can rewatch it here if you want to, even just rewatch the last round. Ortiz ate probably 9 or 10 hard straights throughout that fight that either dropped him or had him on wobbly legs. Anything that landed at that point was gonna drop him. He also technically stopped Gerald Washington among others with his sloppy windmill overhands/hooks so are we gonna say those are great punches too? As for his jab, for being the power puncher that he is, his jab is really not that stiff or heavy. There's also a lot more that goes into having an effective jab, than it just being "heavy". He wouldn't be able to control a fight even against low level guys using his jab

 

[GolovKing]

No, I'm not playing into your goalpost move.
What Wilder did worked...Made him millions upon millions while beating some of the best boxers in the world.
For his body type vast late start and inexperience I think he's an overachiever. Takes more than just one tool to do what he did.

"Best boxers in the world" is a very vague term. Bermane stivierne was once ranked in the top 10 so I guess we could call him one of the best boxers in the world. There's obviously a level above that though right? What could he have done to actually be successful against guys above that level, guys who aren't chinny, guys that will be future hall of famers and who aren't old. Well I'm telling you, he should have developed the other tools in his arsenal. For having his physical abilities, and being in a thin division like heavyweight he should have been more successful than he was even with the late start. His own mind is what prevented that. If that right hand of his was as mediocre as the rest of his game he wouldn't have even gotten past guys like stivierne or Molina

 

[Jonny Ninja]

Povetkin was his WBC mandatory but Wilder could've likely gotten out of it, stalled it, asked for an exception, or paid step-aside money. Yeah, the 2016 version of Povetkin was a terrible match-up for Wilder stylistically. As bad as it gets, really.

Yeah I’ve just read that wilders team won a civil case due to the cancellation. It appears the drug was banned the previous year after being legal prior to 2017

It worked out well for wilder because povetkin would’ve exposed him far earlier in his career

 

[mozfonky]

Not to derail, there was No Badder boxer than Tyson before Buster upset him. He was unstoppable from his first fight and continued ALL through the '80's - PERIOD. His training went to hell from drugs, alcohol, and personal problems before the Douglas fight and he never regained what he had before - disciplin.

No one before him wanted to fight champs from other organizations. Mike Called them ALL OUT... and took the belt from every one of them. Mike became the top dog, BADDEST MAN On The Planet For Years - with ZERO doubt.

no doubt, I still think he was one of the fastest heavyweights ever, only Floyd Patterson had faster hands in his prime and Tyson had that quick twitch muscle all over, feet, body, head. He should have achieved, much, much more.

 

[mozfonky]

Tony Tucker was a great fighter, even an older Tucker took a young, prime Lennox to a decision.

He was a talented guy, I think the story goes he had manager problems and he was injury prone, it's also been said he was a prima donna. Whatever the case, he took prime Tyson the distance and didn't do to bad. They say he was the first person to hurt Tyson, I never thought Tyson was that hurt but even if he was, Bonecrusher Smith landed a huge right hand on him in their fight and that was the first time he was hurt in the pros. As we learned later, Tyson had a big time chin, another reason why he should have been able to achieve so much more.

 

[tymikeson]

Wilders father said it perfectly- from USA TODAY:



Gary Wilder, Deontay's father, claims to know why his son is looking a shadow of his former self and has called for Malik Scott to be relieved of his duties as head trainer.

"You need somebody you’re going to respect. You don't need a buddy to train you,’’ Wilder told USA TODAY Sports.

"Deontay’s always been a slugger.

“Now Malik’s trying to train him to be a boxer, and if you look at it, you’ll see that Deontay is not comfortable with where he's at. As long as he tries to be a boxer, he’s not going to win.

“That’s the bottom line.’’

 

[treelo]

the trolls seem to be really out in force now, someone posted above saying that chisora would have beaten wilder a few years ago, just go the fuck away

people also seem to forget that even in the second Ortiz fight, Wilder lost every single round, so even in his best ever win, his power got him out of trouble

it is what it is, big puncher, couldnt really box very well but entertained the masses, he also has a very good chin and a massive heart, he has been down HEAVY quite a few times and always drags himself back to his feet

 

[borntoloseNOT]

Wilders father said it perfectly- from USA TODAY:



Gary Wilder, Deontay's father, claims to know why his son is looking a shadow of his former self and has called for Malik Scott to be relieved of his duties as head trainer.

"You need somebody you’re going to respect. You don't need a buddy to train you,’’ Wilder told USA TODAY Sports.

"Deontay’s always been a slugger.

“Now Malik’s trying to train him to be a boxer, and if you look at it, you’ll see that Deontay is not comfortable with where he's at. As long as he tries to be a boxer, he’s not going to win.

“That’s the bottom line.’’

With all due respect, Gary, a change in strategy ain’t the answer. Unless that change is retirement.

 

[Kovalev's "Man Bag"]

Yeah I’ve just read that wilders team won a civil case due to the cancellation. It appears the drug was banned the previous year after being legal prior to 2017

It worked out well for wilder because povetkin would’ve exposed him far earlier in his career

He did get a lucky break there with that technicality. But he did try and fight him when he could've paid step-aside money or dropped his belt as a last resort and looked to win it back later. The WBC would've been glad to give him another title shot. It was obvious that they wanted an American heavyweight champion.

 

[Kovalev's "Man Bag"]

You can rewatch it here if you want to, even just rewatch the last round. Ortiz ate probably 9 or 10 hard straights throughout that fight that either dropped him or had him on wobbly legs. Anything that landed at that point was gonna drop him. He also technically stopped Gerald Washington among others with his sloppy windmill overhands/hooks so are we gonna say those are great punches too? As for his jab, for being the power puncher that he is, his jab is really not that stiff or heavy. There's also a lot more that goes into having an effective jab, than it just being "heavy". He wouldn't be able to control a fight even against low level guys using his jab

My point here is that he does have other weapons at his disposal. He did use his jab against Fury in the first two or three rounds of the third fight before abandoning it. Landed jab after jab to the body and kept Fury from pressing forward whenever he liked. At one point he bounced Fury off of the ropes with it in their third fight. Afterwards Fury himself acknowledged that Wilder's jab troubled him in the early goings. Wilder just doesn't use it enough as I said before. Instead he mostly uses it to set up his straight right hand rather than to control the fight.

 

[Ruv]

Still think we will see Wilder vs. Ngannou before they retire. That could be an easy win for Wilder and get him back to a potential fight against Anthony Joshua.