I am unnerved by modern vehicles.

650lb Sumo

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If you haven't read The Machine Stops (1909) by E. M. Forster, please go and do so (it's short) before continuing.

As I was coming up cars, and any vehicle I controlled for that matter (dumper, tractor, boat, plane) had no computers/electrics. Before someone jumps in with an acshully, yes obviously they had starter motors, spark plugs if petrol, radios and lights etc. but that was it. Small cars didn't even have power steering. And yes there were probably some cars with electric windows in the 30s and so on. I'm referring to the everyman's experience.

renault-captur-2025-facelift-blog-image-01.jpg


Actually the dumper had no electrics at all and was crank started, and the tractor would run with the ignition key removed. For a while I drove it with no battery and a broken alternator, you just had to jump start it.

I don't have a car just now, but my most recent one was built in 2014. Now I have had some unpleasant surprises when renting vehicles.

Things I already knew about:

Windows are raised or lowered by electric motor.
Vehicles have ABS, and while on older vehicles you could switch if off, on newer ones you can't.
Ditto for traction control.
Vehicles have power steering, and in fact it is now electric. Fair enough you need power steering on larger vehicles.

Surprises

They have computers on board, and touch screen computer systems, and they can not be switched off by normal methods.
This includes GPS trackers, which show you where you are on a map. The map shows speed limits, which are sometimes wrong.
There is no key, only a fob. Doors are locked or unlocked through the Machine. When I get a vehicle, it locks or unlocks its doors as the fob goes further from or comes closer to it. This can still be disabled.
The vehicle is started or stopped either automatically, or by pressing a button and requesting the Machine to do so. Unless you deliberately stall it I suppose, which you can't do with an automatic. But that wouldn't switch off the electrics. I've heard of vehicles having 'stall assist', but thank goodness haven't driven one yet.

Windscreen wipers are automatic, although you can still disable this in vehicles I have driven.
Side/headlights are automatic and you seem to be unable to disable this.
The handbrake is also automatic. There is a button you can push to ask the Machine to engage or disengage it, but it seems to be irrelevant.
All the rental place's small cars are hybrid or electric. Possibly not across the whole country, but where I've looked.
Not that you would notice, but the engines are all electronic fuel injection now.

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The wing mirrors are adjusted automatically, although you can still disable this. However the 'manual' controls are still buttons and electric motors.
Vehicles monitor your tyre pressure, although you can still disable this. Presumably, as in other contexts, 'disable' simply means it continues to monitor them, but doesn't tell you about it.
A camera on the back of the car switches on when you engage reverse gear, and the display shows what it sees, even if you have switched the display off, which you may not be able to do. I suppose who knows if the camera isn't switched on the whole time.
There are various beeps or verbal warnings, but you can disable them. For now. You can not however disable the 'leaving lane' visual warning.
All the gauges are digital.

Even where you don't notice the difference, no doubt things like switching on the windscreen wipers now send a request to the computer to do so, rather than completing a circuit.
The brakes are about the only manual/analogue thing in a modern vehicle. In case anyone didn't know, the accelerator and clutch are also now simply buttons sending electronic requests to the computer.
Some vehicles now play fake engine noise through the speakers, although not those I've driven. Maybe they had that option and the mechanics disabled it.

No doubt I've missed some things.

Many people in many contexts have discussed how technology is rising above us. I find these technological developments quite unsettling.

Having a car is one thing. I think we'd be better going back to a lower level of technology. However a car in itself is the least of it. You can have a 1987 car which is analogue/manual.

835-2-medium.jpg


It's the insertion of the Machine between the human and every aspect of his environment which is the disturbing part. The Man is no longer in control. The Machine is in control, and the Man asks its permission to see or do anything.

In Dune they had a Butlerian Jihad and banned 'thinking machines'.
 
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In HS I drove a 70 Dodge powerwagon 4 speed 44in super swampers, no PS no PB and 4 wheel drum brakes, points ignition
Or I drove my 69 Ford van no PS PB and drum brakes, points ignition

I don't hate my new truck but I surely don't like that it gps tracks my location
 
If you haven't read The Machine Stops (1909) by E. M. Forster, please go and do so (it's short) before continuing.

As I was coming up cars, and any vehicle I controlled for that matter (dumper, tractor, boat, plane) had no computers/electrics. Before someone jumps in with an acshully, yes obviously they had starter motors, spark plugs if petrol, radios and lights etc. but that was it. Small cars didn't even have power steering. And yes there were probably some cars with electric windows in the 30s and so on. I'm referring to the everyman's experience.

renault-captur-2025-facelift-blog-image-01.jpg


Actually the dumper had no electrics at all and was crank started, and the tractor would run with the ignition key removed. For a while I drove it with no battery and a broken alternator, you just had to jump start it.

I don't have a car just now, but my most recent one was built in 2014. Now I have had some unpleasant surprises when renting vehicles.

Things I already knew about:

Windows are raised or lowered by electric motor.
Vehicles have ABS, and while on older vehicles you could switch if off, on newer ones you can't.
Ditto for traction control.
Vehicles have power steering, and in fact it is now electric. Fair enough you need power steering on larger vehicles.

Surprises

They have computers on board, and touch screen computer systems, and they can not be switched off by normal methods.
This includes GPS trackers, which show you where you are on a map. The map shows speed limits, which are sometimes wrong.
There is no key, only a fob. Doors are locked or unlocked through the Machine. When I get a vehicle, it locks or unlocks its doors as the fob goes further from or comes closer to it. This can still be disabled.
The vehicle is started or stopped either automatically, by pressing a button and requesting the Machine to do so. Unless you deliberately stall it I suppose, which you can't do with an automatic. But that wouldn't switch off the electrics. I've heard of vehicles having 'stall assist', but thank goodness haven't driven one yet.

Windscreen wipers are automatic, although you can still disable this in vehicles I have driven.
Side/headlights are automatic and you seem to be unable to disable this.
The handbrake is also automatic. There is a button you can push to ask the Machine to engage or disengage it, but it seems to be irrelevant.
All the rental place's small cars are hybrid or electric. Possibly not across the whole country, but where I've looked.
Not that you would notice, but the engines are all electronic fuel injection now.

maxresdefault.jpg


The wing mirrors are adjusted automatically, although you can still disable this. However the 'manual' controls are still buttons and electric motors.
Vehicles monitor your tyre pressure, although you can still disable this. Presumably, as in other contexts, 'disable' simply means it continues to monitor them, but doesn't tell you about it.
A camera on the back of the car switches on when you engage reverse gear, and the display shows what it sees, even if you have switched the display off, which you may not be able to do. I suppose who knows if the camera isn't switched on the whole time.
There are various beeps or verbal warnings, but you can disable them. For now. You can not however disable the 'leaving lane' visual warning.
All the gauges are digital.

Even where you don't notice the difference, no doubt things like switching on the windscreen wipers now send a request to the computer to do so, rather than completing a circuit.
The brakes are about the only manual/analogue thing in a modern vehicle. In case anyone didn't know, the accelerator and clutch are also now simply buttons sending electronic requests to the computer.
Some vehicles now play fake engine noise through the speakers, although not those I've driven. Maybe they had that option and the mechanics disabled it.

No doubt I've missed some things.

Many people in many contexts have discussed how technology is rising above us. I find these technological developments quite unsettling.

Having a car is one thing. I think we'd be better going back to a lower level of technology. However a car in itself is the least of it. You can have a 1987 car which is analogue/manual.

835-2-medium.jpg


It's the insertion of the Machine between the human and every aspect of his environment which is the disturbing part. The Man is no longer in control. The Machine is in control, and the Man asks its permission to see or do anything.

In Dune they had a Butlerian Jihad and banned 'thinking machines'.
I KNOW!!! No joke it scares the life out of me, I haven’t driven in years but next time I go back to the UK I’m renting a bog standard Ford Fiesta. I feel like a Luddite for it but something I tried to hire was scary as fcuk.
 
Fast 8 has already shown that cars can be hijacked by terrorists and become falling boulders

cars-2-fast-and-furious.gif


Also read up about the death of Angela Chao. Apparently she backed her Tesla into a lake and drowned in there, but she's involved in so many deals between China and US governments that the conspiracy theories are saying her Tesla got hijacked

 
Some countries have it in the small print in the electric car purchase paperwork that in the event of an emergency the government or military can commandeer your car or geofence you into a certain area. Picture Covid but your card money doesn't work 10 miles away your home (why cash is king), you're not allowed to take the train or the bus, your car literally won't drive you outside of your fence and will drive itself back to your fence if it detects it's not "supposed" to be there. The EU was tabling the idea of making it mandatory for all new cars to have cameras observing the inside of the car "for your security" by 2030 or something like that. The US too but I believe it was tabled for the moment. So now you've got AI facial recognition and microphones spying on all the conversations and comings and goings in your life.

Anyway the point is that they're stuffing the cars with tech because it gives them more surveillance and more control. Always more tech, never less. They're like the Cylons, they hate analog shit because they can't use it against you.
 
I don't know how familiar you are with hiring cars, but you won't be able to hire a vehicle without the intrusive tech generally. You'll have to either just hire a car from a person, not a rental business. Or with a business it will be classed as an 'exotic or retro vehicle', and will cost extra and only be available in certain busy places.

Edit: This was of course featured in 1984 and the idea has come up elsewhere. In the future to do things like use cash, drive a car without intrusive tech, read a paper book or whatever you will have to go to a 'historic amusement park'.
I’ve hired from UK firms at Heathrow heaps of times and I’m fine with a Ford Fiesta.
 
For real. run back the clock and start making new Early 2000 4Runners. Sell them for $30'000 per car and it'll start to look like the 1930's again when the model T was the only car on the road.
 
I’ve hired from UK firms at Heathrow heaps of times and I’m fine with a Ford Fiesta.
You are a person I prefer not to engage with.
I just responded automatically, then realised it was you.
That's why I deleted my post.
However as you quoted it it's preserved, and I felt it was better to come back and explain what's going on than leave half a conversation like that.
You have missed the point.
Thanks for your input and have a pleasant evening.

/

Let me rephrase the point I raised, which I think is relevant regardless of the person it was addressed to:

You can't hire a vehicle without the intrusive tech generally. You'll have to either just hire a car from a person, not a rental business. Or with a business it will be classed as an 'exotic or retro vehicle', and will cost extra and only be available in certain busy places. The car would have to be what, 30 years old at least? Maybe a little less.

Edit: This was of course featured in 1984 and the idea has come up elsewhere. In the future to do things like use cash, drive a car without intrusive tech, read a paper book or whatever you will have to go to a 'historic amusement park'.
 
Killswitches mandatory in vehicle manufacturing by 2030. Sick way to lead to complete control.
 
Some countries have it in the small print in the electric car purchase paperwork that in the event of an emergency the government or military can commandeer your car or geofence you into a certain area. Picture Covid but your card money doesn't work 10 miles away your home (why cash is king), you're not allowed to take the train or the bus, your car literally won't drive you outside of your fence and will drive itself back to your fence if it detects it's not "supposed" to be there. The EU was tabling the idea of making it mandatory for all new cars to have cameras observing the inside of the car "for your security" by 2030 or something like that. The US too but I believe it was tabled for the moment. So now you've got AI facial recognition and microphones spying on all the conversations and comings and goings in your life.

Anyway the point is that they're stuffing the cars with tech because it gives them more surveillance and more control. Always more tech, never less. They're like the Cylons, they hate analog shit because they can't use it against you.

Sounds like i should keep all 7 of my bicycles.
 
I rented a Vauxhall Grandland to drive to Anglesey a couple of years ago, and whilst it was okay, I really didn't like the lane sensors. It would take control of your vehicle and nudge itself gently back over to the left side a bit. As I was driving narrow and country roads, it was an annoyance, and I view the idea of taking any degree of control over the driver to be a big mistake anyway.
 
I rented a Vauxhall Grandland to drive to Anglesey a couple of years ago, and whilst it was okay, I really didn't like the lane sensors. It would take control of your vehicle and nudge itself gently back over to the left side a bit. As I was driving narrow and country roads, it was an annoyance, and I view the idea of taking any degree of control over the driver to be a big mistake anyway.
Yup, in any car I've had I've never even used the cruise control.
 
Yup, in any car I've had I've never even used the cruise control.

That's my issue with modern cars and the idea of self-driving cars.

We cannot have incompetent, lazy and unfocused people in control of these things. If the self-driving screws up somehow, the driver should make snap decisions to solve it, but they're not going to be able to do that if they've been doing for nothing but sitting there for hours everyday...
 
I don't know what you call this feature but I realized newer cars sort of hold the steering wheel in place when you go around curves so the car is aligned with the road. It surprised me the first time it happened. I guess it's helpful for people who don't know how to make micro adjustments to the steering wheel.

With all this new tech, governments/AI overlords can track our movements and maybe even control the car we're in. Being a serial killer is getting harder and harder.
 
(1) I suppose the door and glovebox handles, and seatbelt buckles are still manual. So that's three things.

(2) I was able to hire a car with cash in 2010 last time? Although you had to have a card scanned in case you damaged it. When the last time was you could just hire a car with cash in the UK idk. Again to do that now you'd probably have to find a private person.

(3) On heavier vehicles needing power steering, this is true past a certain point, but I suppose you could have 44 ton lorries without power steering, if they were designed for it, with big steering wheels and a high turning ratio. Maybe a burly driver too. Most lorries had power steering by the 60s, but they've got heavier since then. By the way modern electric power steering also gives you fake feedback, like the fake engine noise from the speakers.

(4) There's something I've wondered about for a while but it's never really come up so I might as well mention it here. I did mention the urban legend? of the Strategic Steam Reserve not long ago. After an EMP steam trains would work, and a modern diesel train wouldn't, but I wonder what about a diesel train from the 70s or something? Idk much about trains.

I was wondering, if you could get it started, would it run with no electrics? I was thinking if you could raise a heavy weight up high on a crane (using it as an inert pulley), for instance by raising 50lbs of bricks at a time until you had enough, and attach it to a cable, and connect the cable to spin the engine up via another pulley, when you drop the weight, would that get the engine working? The same principle as turning a crank or bump starting a car. Or this, but obviously with an engine so heavy people wouldn't be strong enough to do it.



You would have to find a way of disengaging the pulley brake manually, and of having the cable detach from the flywheel once it started turning. You could weld or cut with oxyacetylene or similar if necessary. Fit a cog to the flywheel, and a chain to the end of the cable maybe.

This bridge, which was made in 1934, can be raised and lowered manually. Its primary system is electric motors, the backup is a petrol motor, and the emergency backup is manually-turned winches. But we don't make things like that any more. Actually British people don't make much at all these days.

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I think most rail switches (where the train can go left or right) still have handles to operate them manually, in case the electrics fail. @Wrath of Foamy are you the train driver? Can you answer this? Edit: Actually I think the train driver might be @Tone C.

This weight and cable method could potentially work on any old enough diesel engine, although it might be onerous cutting through ship decks to get at the engine. Then I suppose once you'd got one engine started you could potentially use that to start others.

If it was a car you could bump start it, and if it was a bus or something too big to bump start by pushing, you might be able to roll it down a hill to bump start, although this could obviously go wrong. But you couldn't do that with a train or boat, or a vehicle too large to push that wasn't conveniently stopped up a slope. Another possibility I suppose would be to start a steam engine, then use that to start the diesel.

If it came to it you could use horses to pull (light) railway carriages. It would be more effective than them pulling loads along the road. Maybe you could get horse-pullable carriages from museums, or just make some. Only the wheels and axles would need to be metal.

I doubt horses would be able to move a locomotive if it was stopped in your way though. I think they could pull an empty, normal carriage, but if you couldn't start a locomotive you would probably need to bring another locomotive to move it (steam or otherwise), or dismantle it into pieces small enough to move. Maybe topple it onto its side or blow it up, but those options seem more far-fetched.
 
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