Hypothetical: Volk doesn't fight Islam and stays at FW

[NadaRekowski]

Respectfully your join date is 2016 and I assume missed the WEC Aldo era completely. You are using revisionist theory to minimize Aldo’s accomplishments in an era that you were not privy to seeing live time. WEC was the highest level worldwide for the lighter weight classes and as such was folded into the UFC nobody ever diminished Aldo’s WEC accomplishments at that time because we all knew he was the best and had been consistently fighting and beating the best 145ers on the planet. Aldo is the FW goat and his WEC accomplishments do matter. As for your claims about him being prime at 32 there is something called fight miles on your body. Aldo started professional fighting in his late teens and fought at an incredibly high level it is normal for a fighter (especially a smaller weight fighter) to fall out of prime much earlier due to this. You can even see it in the way he quite literally stopped throwing his patented leg kicks due to injuries accumulated through his long career.

I started watching MMA when Jones dismantled Shogun and I wholeheartedly agree to this.

 

[Alpha_T83]

Who's thinking Topuira is?!
It's still Aldo for being a fucking savage on his run and a contender on his way out.
Volk is close second.

TBH I just assumed it was Topuria that was being referenced, when it was implied that Volk wasn't the 145 pound GOAT.

We have had this argument and it has already been decided that Volk surpassed Aldo.

 

[Westbrick]

I can and I will ignore the WEC.

It was a fine organization and produced some solid fighters. But the 135 & 145 pound divisions became far, far deeper after the UFC acquired them. That can't be argued against or ignored.

you're just too dumb bro

 

[Alpha_T83]

you're just too dumb bro

Thanks for admitting you've lost the argument. When logic fails and people resort to insults, it's always an admission of defeat.

 

[NadaRekowski]

TBH I just assumed it was Topuria that was being referenced, when it was implied that Volk wasn't the 145 pound GOAT.

We have had this argument and it has already been decided that Volk surpassed Aldo.

Nah, Aldo ruled merciless for 8 years and had an 18 wins streak with 9 brutal finishes.

Volk is a monster in his own regard but Aldo was in a different era with different aura.

 

[Alpha_T83]

Nah, Aldo ruled merciless for 8 years and had an 18 wins streak with 9 brutal finishes.

Volk is a monster in his own regard but Aldo was in a different era with different aura.

IDK what to say but there are definitely threads about this, and the take home is that Aldo ruled during a weak era, and Volk has qualitatively better wins.

Aldo never beat ANYONE as good as Max Holloway. Period. And Volk is 3-0 against Max.

 

[NadaRekowski]

IDK what to say but there are definitely threads about this, and the take home is that Aldo ruled during a weak era, and Volk has qualitatively better wins.

Aldo never beat ANYONE as good as Max Holloway. Period. And Volk is 3-0 against Max.

Aldo fought way higher competition throughout his whole career and fought way longer than Volk.
Volks first 13 wins dont even have wiki pages.

Aldo started fighting professionally at 2004 and Volk at 2012.

I will not discuss this any further. If you think Volk is FW GOAT that's fine with me. I have him close second so agree to disagree.

Both were/ are absolute monsters and I'm a fan of either.

 

[Alpha_T83]

Aldo fought way higher competition throughout his whole career and fought way longer than Volk.
Volks first 13 wins dont even have wiki pages.

Aldo started fighting professionally at 2004 and Volk at 2012.

I will not discuss this any further. If you think Volk is FW GOAT that's fine with me. I have him close second so agree to disagree.

Both were/ are absolute monsters and I'm a fan of either.

Again, Volk has 4 wins that are better than any of Aldo's wins: his win against Aldo, and 3-0 wins against Max Holloway. No one that Aldo beat is ranked higher than himself or Max Holloway on the all-time list. Aldo has quantity, but Volk won the head to head matchup and Volk's "weak" title defenses against KZ, Yair, and Ortega look good compared to Aldo's wins against Gamburyan, Hominick, and Kenny Florian.

If you want to take quantity over quality, that's fine. But I don't accept that. I don't count the WEC fights. And that means that Volk will equal Aldo @ 8 UFC title wins, if he defends his belt one more time.

 

[xhaydenx]

Good point -- I keep forgetting that Topuria beat Max at 145. I think Topuria could well be the 145 pound GOAT if he stayed in the division and kept defending the belt.

The problem with the Topuria argument is that Conor McGregor also did the same thing. He beat Aldo, who at the time seemed unbeatable (at 29 years old in his prime), and then he went up and won the 155 pound title.

So by your logic the all time FW rankings would have to be: Topuria, McGregor, and then Volk/Aldo as #3/4. And if you eliminate McGregor then you're just baselessly cherry picking with your argument.

Well, Conor didn't do the same thing because he never defended the FW belt. He just went straight to LW. Again, Topuria defended against Max.

And it's not like Max was easy pickings. He was the clear cut 2nd best guy in the division. If Top had just never defended that would be one thing, but taking out the two guys who are the clear top of the division back to back counts for a lot. It certainly counts for way more than what Conor did.

But also, what Conor and Topuria did after FW doesn't have anything to do with their place at FW. Their wins at LW don't mean anything the same way that Vok's 2 losses don't.

I'd put Volk above Conor for sure.

 

[Alpha_T83]

Well, Conor didn't do the same thing because he never defended the FW belt. He just went straight to LW. Again, Topuria defended against Max.

And it's not like Max was easy pickings. He was the clear cut 2nd best guy in the division. If Top had just never defended that would be one thing, but taking out the two guys who are the clear top of the division back to back counts for a lot. It certainly counts for way more than what Conor did.

But also, what Conor and Topuria did after FW doesn't have anything to do with their place at FW. Their wins at LW don't mean anything the same way that Vok's 2 losses don't.

I'd put Volk above Conor for sure.

That's just a technicality and cherry picking because Conor is now disgraced. Also Conor won 2x title fights @ 145 pounds just like Topuria did.

The argument formulation is something like: "If Topuria kept fighting at featherweight, no one would be able to beat him and he would become the GOAT."

And the same argument logic applies to Conor. Who would have beaten him? I can tell you that he would have beaten everyone at 145 pounds for a long time. Only Volkanvoski would have realistically dethroned him. Therefore had Conor continued fighting at 145 pounds and never gone to boxing, he would have been winning 2 title fights a year until late 2019. That would see him rack up 7-8 title defenses and 9-10 total title wins before losing to Volk. And there is absolutely no reason to believe it would go any other way, with the exception of unexpected injuries.

 

[NadaRekowski]

Again, Volk has 4 wins that are better than any of Aldo's wins: his win against Aldo, and 3-0 wins against Max Holloway. No one that Aldo beat is ranked higher than himself or Max Holloway on the all-time list. Aldo has quantity, but Volk won the head to head matchup and Volk's "weak" title defenses against KZ, Yair, and Ortega look good compared to Aldo's wins against Gamburyan, Hominick, and Kenny Florian.

If you want to take quantity over quality, that's fine. But I don't accept that. I don't count the WEC fights. And that means that Volk will equal Aldo @ 8 UFC title wins, if he defends his belt one more time.

If that's your opinion... I have Khabib higher than Islam aswell simply due to dominance.

I don't hate your take.

 

[Alpha_T83]

If that's your opinion... I have Khabib higher than Islam aswell simply due to dominance.

I don't hate your take.

I actually agree with that.

Khabib was so dominant, I don't know if any lightweight in history can beat him, prime for prime. This is the fundamental problem with quantity vs quality.

 

[xhaydenx]

That's just a technicality and cherry picking because Conor is now disgraced. Also Conor won 2x title fights @ 145 pounds just like Topuria did.

The argument formulation is something like: "If Topuria kept fighting at featherweight, no one would be able to beat him and he would become the GOAT."

And the same argument logic applies to Conor. Who would have beaten him? I can tell you that he would have beaten everyone at 145 pounds for a long time. Only Volkanvoski would have realistically dethroned him. Therefore had Conor continued fighting at 145 pounds and never gone to boxing, he would have been winning 2 title fights a year until late 2019. That would see him rack up 7-8 title defenses and 9-10 total title wins before losing to Volk. And there is absolutely no reason to believe it would go any other way, with the exception of unexpected injuries.

What the hell?

Brother, Conor won an interim belt against Chad who came in on 2 weeks notice with no cardio, and then he beat Aldo and never defended.

It's not the same thing at all as beating the dominant champ and then beating the no2 guy with no short notice circumstances or what have you.

It's got nothing to do with cherry picking or Conor being now disgraced either lol. What he is now means absolutely nothing to me in regards to what he did back at FW.

 

[Alpha_T83]

What the hell?

Brother, Conor won an interim belt against Chad who came in on 2 weeks notice with no cardio, and then he beat Aldo and never defended.

It's not the same thing at all as beating the dominant champ and then beating the no2 guy with no short notice circumstances or what have you.

It's got nothing to do with cherry picking or Conor being now disgraced either lol. What he is now means absolutely nothing to me in regards to what he did back at FW.

Mendes was a legitimate 145er at the time and one of Aldo's better wins. Many people picked Mendes to upset Conor. Yes it was short notice, but it was still impressive at the time.

Again, Conor very likely would have dominated 145 until Volk came along. But we don't call Conor one of the FW GOATs because he didn't actually do that. Same thing with Topuria. But Topuria still has time to cement his legacy. If he continues to dominate at 155, and especially if he becomes the first champ to win belts in 3x weight classes by going up to 170 pounds, then Topuria might just cement himself as the greatest MMA fighter of all time.That's a lot of ifs, so I'll reserve judgement until I see the proof that he can do that.

And yes, your urge to discredit McGregor is rooted in cherry picking because he is disgraced, and you know it. At least be honest about it.

 

[xhaydenx]

Mendes was a legitimate 145er at the time and one of Aldo's better wins. Many people picked Mendes to upset Conor. Yes it was short notice, but it was still impressive at the time.

Again, Conor very likely would have dominated 145 until Volk came along. But we don't call Conor one of the FW GOATs because he didn't actually do that. Same thing with Topuria. But Topuria still has time to cement his legacy. If he continues to dominate at 155, and especially if he becomes the first champ to win belts in 3x weight classes by going up to 170 pounds, then Topuria might just cement himself as the greatest MMA fighter of all time.That's a lot of ifs, so I'll reserve judgement until I see the proof that he can do that.

And yes, your urge to discredit McGregor is rooted in cherry picking because he is disgraced, and you know it. At least be honest about it.

Whether Chad was a legitimate 145er and being one of Aldo's better wins means nothing when he was literally off on a hunting trip when he got the call. How was it impressive for Conor when he was literally losing the fight until Chad gassed within 2 rounds? The same Chad who went 5 rounds with Aldo? You can't just ignore the context of that fight.

Yeh, maybe Topuria can get 3 belts and cement his legacy. That'd be cool to see. WW will be tough for him, however.

I don't know what this weird idea you have with Conor, disgrace, and cherry picking is, or how you think I'm being dishonest. I don't have anything at all against Conor. I loved all his fights, and will happily watch him fight again if he ever does. Not everyone hates Conor lol.

 

[Alpha_T83]

Whether Chad was a legitimate 145er and being one of Aldo's better wins means nothing when he was literally off on a hunting trip when he got the call. How was it impressive for Conor when he was literally losing the fight until Chad gassed within 2 rounds? The same Chad who went 5 rounds with Aldo? You can't just ignore the context of that fight.

Yeh, maybe Topuria can get 3 belts and cement his legacy. That'd be cool to see. WW will be tough for him, however.

I don't know what this weird idea you have with Conor, disgrace, and cherry picking is, or how you think I'm being dishonest. I don't have anything at all against Conor. I loved all his fights, and will happily watch him fight again if he ever does. Not everyone hates Conor lol.

This issue has come up in other discussions with Topuria. Talking about the 145 GOAT, some people thinking Topuria is the GOAT, but then rejecting McGregor's basically equal accomplishments (2x title wins at 145 followed by winning the 155 title).

So my apologies if I'm jumping to conclusions, but I've seen these logical threads before, and they are usually rooted in McGregor being a disgrace.

 

[Rampage_Jackson]

Absolutely fantastic argument.

What is there to argue when you dismiss wins against top 3 opponents in the weight class at the time because of what company it was in? You realize fighters across all promotions were ranked by outlets and they said the WEC had the best 145 lb fighters in the world. And you say those wins mean less because they weren't in the UFC. You are the one making fantastic arguments

 

[Rampage_Jackson]

Whether Chad was a legitimate 145er and being one of Aldo's better wins means nothing when he was literally off on a hunting trip when he got the call. How was it impressive for Conor when he was literally losing the fight until Chad gassed within 2 rounds? The same Chad who went 5 rounds with Aldo? You can't just ignore the context of that fight.

Yeh, maybe Topuria can get 3 belts and cement his legacy. That'd be cool to see. WW will be tough for him, however.

I don't know what this weird idea you have with Conor, disgrace, and cherry picking is, or how you think I'm being dishonest. I don't have anything at all against Conor. I loved all his fights, and will happily watch him fight again if he ever does. Not everyone hates Conor lol.

Just rewatched Mendes/McGregor recently and Chad looks like absolute shit in that fight lol

 

[Neck&Neck]

You can call these others guys the FW GOAT
But prime vs prime I think Toppy sleeps them all, Aldo, Volk, Max, Conor, whoever
So I’ll just call Topuira The GOAT Sleeper
Aldo maybe has a chance with a flying knee or something, but the rest get slept easy

 

[xhaydenx]

This issue has come up in other discussions with Topuria. Talking about the 145 GOAT, some people thinking Topuria is the GOAT, but then rejecting McGregor's basically equal accomplishments (2x title wins at 145 followed by winning the 155 title).

So my apologies if I'm jumping to conclusions, but I've seen these logical threads before, and they are usually rooted in McGregor being a disgrace.

Well, I don't know about those other threads or what people are saying in regards to Conor, but I definitely don't think like that about him lol, especially in regards to his FW history. Some losses at LW and WW don't change any of that for me. Apology accepted. Was confusing me why you thought that stuff at first haha.

But I do think there's a massive difference between beating short notice Chad in a fight he was losing for Conor in a fight that was just for an interim belt, vs taking out a fully prepared Max in an actual title defense for Topuria. I don't think following the 145 run by winning the 155 title means anything in regards to Conor's place at FW. Same way Volk losing to Islam doesn't mean anything to his legacy at FW.