hypocritical to insult Bellator about Kimbo vs Dada, but not talk bad about UFC setting up CM Punk

[Final Say]

Let me school everyone here about the logical error they're making. This is not aimed at anyone in particular.

This is for everyone.

You guys making a logical fallacy in assuming that the very people who are "whining" about freakshow fights, such as the Kimbo one, are somehow ok with the CM Punk fight. You're looking at the freakshow fight vocalists as one single entity. That because you hear whining about the Kimbo fight, that somehow that these same whiners are ok with the CM Punk fight, because after all, you heard some people support the Punk fight, so surely these are the same people in both instances, right?

Wrong.

You're also making an assumption that the very people who are ok with the Punk fight, were ok with the Kimbo fight. Just because one group spoke up about one fight they didn't like, doesn't make them the SAME GROUP that spoke up about another similar fight that they didn't like.

Simple breakdown:

Group A = Kimbo "whiners"
Group B = CM Punk supporters
Group C = Kimbo "whiners" AND CM Punk haters (so basically this group is opposed to "freakshow" fights in general. They ARE one single entity).
Group D = Kimbo supporters AND CM Punk supporters (this group is ok with either, just here to see interesting fights).


So if you hear Group A talk shit about the Bellator freakshow fight, WHY ARE YOU INVOLVING Group B???? They had nothing to do with what Group A just spouted. Unless you can SPECFICALLY show the same username being hypocritical, don't look at these groups as the same entity. Maybe one group is more vocal than another group about what they like and don't like. Just because you don't hear from Group B about their thoughts on Kimbo, don't assume they don't support it. The Kimbo "whiners" have NOTHING to do with Group B.

Prepare to see similar posts from me in the future whenever logic gets flagrantly abused. I'll be here to disarm it, undress it, and leave you hanging by your balls from the horn of a unicorn.

This post is terrible. It really sucked to read and I didn't even finish it. Nothing to do with the colors, either.

 

[orangecuse]

Have you not noticed a lot of us have been mocking that shit since before it was even officially announced. On top of that a whole bunch of UFC fighters have mocked it. I don't get where you're coming from.

The hypocritical thing would be the morons who called that Dada crap exciting or didn't mock it(yes those "fans" actually exist)but will mock this CM crap if it ever happens.

I think that garbage was a good thing for CM and the UFC. I don't think it's possibly for him to put up a performance as embarrassing and pathetic. It's crap either way though.


BTW Dada almost died if he did that would have been the most damaging thing ever to happen to MMA. And for what? It was shit show that will get solid ratings on spike for one night. Sad really.

 

[Loiosh]

Nah, the point is he could if he wanted to, and the ufc for years mocked Pride for its "freak show fights," making the whole CM Punk thing repugnant.

And when a CM Punk fight actually happens, you can feel free to complain about it.

 

[capnlarge]

UFC also used Kimbo twice. UFC is just as guilty of doing dumb shit for ratings as any other org.

Not just twice. He was on TUF 10 and lost to Roy Nelson on one of the first episodes, then they shamelessly hyped up everyone's hang nail or stubbed toe as a potential serious injury that would get Kimbo back in the competition.

 

[King of Fists]

Let me school everyone here about the logical error they're making. This is not aimed at anyone in particular.

This is for everyone.

You guys making a logical fallacy in assuming that the very people who are "whining" about freakshow fights, such as the Kimbo one, are somehow ok with the CM Punk fight. You're looking at the freakshow fight vocalists as one single entity. That because you hear whining about the Kimbo fight, that somehow that these same whiners are ok with the CM Punk fight, because after all, you heard some people support the Punk fight, so surely these are the same people in both instances, right?

Wrong.

You're also making an assumption that the very people who are ok with the Punk fight, were ok with the Kimbo fight. Just because one group spoke up about one fight they didn't like, doesn't make them the SAME GROUP that spoke up about another similar fight that they didn't like.

Simple breakdown:

Group A = Kimbo "whiners"
Group B = CM Punk supporters
Group C = Kimbo "whiners" AND CM Punk haters (so basically this group is opposed to "freakshow" fights in general. They ARE one single entity).
Group D = Kimbo supporters AND CM Punk supporters (this group is ok with either, just here to see interesting fights).


So if you hear Group A talk shit about the Bellator freakshow fight, WHY ARE YOU INVOLVING Group B???? They had nothing to do with what Group A just spouted. Unless you can SPECFICALLY show the same username being hypocritical, don't look at these groups as the same entity. Maybe one group is more vocal than another group about what they like and don't like. Just because you don't hear from Group B about their thoughts on Kimbo, don't assume they don't support it. The Kimbo "whiners" have NOTHING to do with Group B.

Prepare to see similar posts from me in the future whenever logic gets flagrantly abused. I'll be here to disarm it, undress it, and leave you hanging by your balls from the horn of a unicorn.

Yes, of course in general it's bad form to generalize internet opinions as belonging to "everyone" or to project stereotypes; i.e. someone criticizing kimbo-Dada must be one of "those guys" who are ufc shills and give cm Punk a pass. This is obviously not the case.

My point, and I believe it is a fair one, is that criticizing "freakshow" fights is for chumps. It's the internet and people have perfect standards, I get that. But imo the only ppl who really have any business criticizing a fight (outside of dirty fighters or bizarre behavior like quarry-starnes) are current or former pro fighters. That's my opinion anyway.

 

[melvinj0]

Not just twice. He was on TUF 10 and lost to Roy Nelson on one of the first episodes, then they shamelessly hyped up everyone's hang nail or stubbed toe as a potential serious injury that would get Kimbo back in the competition.

And before all that they signed a guy that beat Kimbo in a street fight based entirely on that feat alone.

 

[legkicktko]

Shit was a joke.

There are like 16 people at my gym that could have made a better fight and half of them can out talk them too

 

[Woliwo]

Well at least both Kimbo and Dada have more than 0 matches.
So you got a point.

 

[Pacemaker Joe]

People are talking negatively about Punk getting a shot in the UFC all the time so this isn't thread worthy if just a few people have done differently.

That said I'd bet my house on that Punk doesn't look worse than Dada 5000. Not due to confidence in Punk but because it's pretty impossible to look worse than Dada if you've trained seriously for over a year. Then again Punk has a much better technical opponent than Dada had.

He should still manage to go 30 seconds without either gassing or getting mounted.

But yea when even Rogan is saying he has no place in the UFC, you can hardly make an argument that nobody is talking about how ridiculous it is. He and Robin Black covered it for about 10 minutes on his podcast, basically saying he didn't know what he was doing when he asked for it, but now it's been hyped so much that it's hard for him to get out of it. But is it that big of a deal if it's stuck on the prelims? Yea, it's retarded and a freakshow, but I doubt it will be nearly as bad as the co-main for 149, even if only because Gall will have good enough cardio to finish it before he gasses out completely.

 

[Pacemaker Joe]

Shit was a joke.

There are like 16 people at my gym that could have made a better fight and half of them can out talk them too

Any 2 guys with a year of training and something approaching average fitness would have made a better fight. There are TONS of "pro" fights that show near-zero technique, but they're still fun.

 

[Blayt7hh]

This is a stupid thread, most people have been talking bad about both

 

[BeerCityBandit]

Right. Punk should totally be in Bellator if he really just wanted to fight, but it wasn't all his idea. I heard the UFC were the ones who approached him with a big offer. Clearly looking for a cash grab with another crossover star.

The UFC is hurting for stars right now. Conor is really the only one. Ronda lost. Jones has been out. Nobody else is really out there selling fights. That's not to say good fights aren't happening, but guys like Robbie Lawler are known more for their fighting ability than their personality. That's fine for the sport, but the UFC is all about making money.

At least Bellator doesn't even try to hide it. While the UFC is trying to make themselves look like a big time sport, Bellator is just like "Yeah, we're gonna have a couple YouTube street brawlers and two guys from the early 90s UFC co-headline this card because don't even act like you're not morbidly interested. We both know you wanna watch, and there's no way the UFC would approve of this shit, so we gotta be THAT MMA brand and do it ourselves."

 

[arridude]

For sure the fight was not a good showcase of the sport especially in terms of athleticism and technique.
But how to blame Bellator to try to make some easy money setting up a fight between 2 street brawlers from the same hood.

For god's sake 1 fighter is 42 (K) and the other one is 38 (D5000). What u expected from 2 guys that when they said they trained their whole life they mean that they lift up weights the whole day in the backyard or in prison and then they brawled to kill the time???

 

[DrDangles]

Differences between Dada/Kimbo & Punk/Gall

1. Mickey Gall is a REAL prospect
2. CM Punk did the pro wrestling circuit for a long time. Its not fighting, but he also wasnt fighting on the street
3. CM Punk spent a year training before agreeing to a fight. Not like calling a guy like Dada, who cleary wasnt in shape, to fight in 3 months
4. If CM Punk didnt get injured, the plan was to have Punk/Gall below Weidman-Rockhold II, a legit title fight
5. CM Punk is a professional. I doubt we here him screaming about his penis size at the pre-fight press conference

 

[Mikedh]

Right. Punk should totally be in Bellator if he really just wanted to fight, but it wasn't all his idea. I heard the UFC were the ones who approached him with a big offer. Clearly looking for a cash grab with another crossover star.

The UFC is hurting for stars right now. Conor is really the only one. Ronda lost. Jones has been out. Nobody else is really out there selling fights. That's not to say good fights aren't happening, but guys like Robbie Lawler are known more for their fighting ability than their personality. That's fine for the sport, but the UFC is all about making money.

At least Bellator doesn't even try to hide it. While the UFC is trying to make themselves look like a big time sport, Bellator is just like "Yeah, we're gonna have a couple YouTube street brawlers and two guys from the early 90s UFC co-headline this card because don't even act like you're not morbidly interested. We both know you wanna watch, and there's no way the UFC would approve of this shit, so we gotta be THAT MMA brand and do it ourselves."

Having punk doesn't take away from the UFC still having 95% of the elite fighters in the world. And they are not bringing in someone for Punk like Coker does with his freak fights. Like Kimbo (in the UFC) and Toney Punk will have to fight a real UFC fighter.

UFC also just had their biggest year. Not really "hurting" or "desperate" as you imply.

 

[Mr. Hammer]

To the TS and the people who liked his OP:

Almost everybody has been criticizing the UFC and Punk's chances. So no hypocrites.

 

[Dorkman]

Yeah, because nobody ever disses on the UFC for signing Punk.

Yeah I came to say something similar. it's been nothing but shit talk towards Brooks, and the UFC since day 1. People are plenty loud about it.

 

[giusti825]

You didn't "tolerate" jack, you took what you were given and dealt with it. If Giant Silva pulled in 3x the viewers as any other headliner you're damn right he would have got top billing.

Its ignorant and asinine to act like mma promotions should have the purity of the sport first and foremost.

Its also ignorant and asinine to act like mma promotions shouldn't be held accountable by the fans for putting on celebrity tuf man competitions that devolve into complete shitshows where someone almost dies as a direct result of being untrained and not having enough cardio to stand up for 10 minutes.....

Do i think cm punk should be getting his first mma fight in the UFC? no

Do i think if he wasn't actually training and going to be well prepared for the fight that the ufc would let him get in the cage? Hell no...

 

[FrankieNYC]

Its also ignorant and asinine to act like mma promotions shouldn't be held accountable by the fans for putting on celebrity tuf man competitions that devolve into complete shitshows where someone almost dies as a direct result of being untrained and not having enough cardio to stand up for 10 minutes.....

Do i think cm punk should be getting his first mma fight in the UFC? no

Do i think if he wasn't actually training and going to be well prepared for the fight that the ufc would let him get in the cage? Hell no...

100% this.
Herschal Walker seemed to take his training seriously.
Punk moved away from his home for a year to train.
Dada and Kimbo stole a paycheck

 

[Wayweary]

Artem Lobov is probably only a decent amateur fighter. Awful pro and HORRIBLE UFC fighter.

He did pretty well on TUF. He's actually got an even professional record (unless you count all of his KTFO victories on TUF) which makes him far beyond an amateur. Hell, being a finalist on TUF does that. I hate Conor and rooted against Artem but he is dangerous. A lot of his losses were apparently at higher weight classes and on short notice.