How would Shogun\Machida 3 play out.

[UL]

this made me laugh, petey is gonna be after you.

shogun would take it, dida and the team created the gameplan to beat machida and they would just have to make some changes.

 

[Kaffe]

 

[GoldenSugar]

Machida is scared shitless of Shogun, Shogun would ko him in 2 most likely scenario.

 

[TKimble]

Neither guy has looked particularly good since they last fought.

One guy looks like a entirely different fighter in the way he has fallen off (Shogun).

That's all Machida "nut huggers" like me, who pulled for Shogun in both fights and thought he won the 1st fight, are saying. It's not some grand conspiracy to denigrate your home boy's legacy. Relax.

 

[411dd]

Machida has never been outclassed by shogun. Not once.

He's been ko'd by him but was not outclassed in that fight.

Machida is a better fighter, but shogun is more durable. Sometimes durability can win.

Once the durability is gone, he's going to get ko'd in every fight because he doesn't know how to defend himself properly.

 

[MiroHa]

Machida has never been outclassed by shogun. Not once.

He's been ko'd by him but was not outclassed in that fight.

Machida is a better fighter, but shogun is more durable. Sometimes durability can win.

Once the durability is gone, he's going to get ko'd in every fight because he doesn't know how to defend himself properly.

He barely got a win against Shogun with one of the most controversial decisions of all time and in the second fight got KTFO. How is that not being outclassed? Lol.

 

[GoldenSugar]

Machida has never been outclassed by shogun. Not once.

He's been ko'd by him but was not outclassed in that fight.

Machida is a better fighter, but shogun is more durable. Sometimes durability can win.

Once the durability is gone, he's going to get ko'd in every fight because he doesn't know how to defend himself properly.

Oh jesus. How is Machida a better fighter? Losing to Rampage? Getting KTFO by Shogun?

or was it his amazing wins over young up and comers Ortiz and Couture?

 

[411dd]

He barely got a win against Shogun with one of the most controversial decisions of all time and in the second fight got KTFO. How is that not being outclassed? Lol.

First fight was an evenly matched fight. Not ouclassed.

2nd was a fight that machida was winning but got ko'd by an odd punch because he missed his own punch landed funny on the ground already mounted. It just happened too fast and too "perfectly" for the ko to mean that he was a better fighter. In essence he got matt serra'd.

I look at the overall fight not just the outcome.

Never was outclassed once by him.

It's not just who you beat it's also your skills that you display when fighting that mean something.

 

[TKimble]

Machida has never been outclassed by shogun. Not once.

He's been ko'd by him but was not outclassed in that fight.

Machida is a better fighter, but shogun is more durable. Sometimes durability can win.

Once the durability is gone, he's going to get ko'd in every fight because he doesn't know how to defend himself properly.

Shogun's primary problem is that he lacks a jab and relies too heavily on that right cross. He throws that thing when he's countering, he throws it to initiate, and when it doesn't land effectively, he starts swinging wildly. He no longer has the ability to simply outclass everyone with his hand speed (which has slowed down a bit), so the holes that have always been existent in his striking game have become more glaring. He can no longer cover them up with his amazing raw ability.

Just look at his fight against a sloppy puncher in Forrest, versus a technically sound puncher in Hendo. He keeps throwing this ridiculous lead uppercut that left him totally exposed. It hit Griffin, because he's sloppy on his feet, but Hendo kept countering that shit all day with short rights.

Shogun also has gone away from kicking guys with volume, like he did against Machida, making his hands that much more predictable, and that much less effective. IIRC, he threw something like 50 leg kicks in the first Machida fight. I doubt he's thrown 50 leg kicks in his last 5 fights combined.

Edit: I should add that Shogun has always criminally underutilized his leg kicks, but he could get away with that when he was younger. Now, not so much.

 

[K.r.u.n.k.e.d]

Don't be a prisoner of the moment. Styles make fights, and Shogun is a really tough match-up for Machida. I still think Shogun wins in a rubber match.

 

[Ughugh]

Machida has looked exactly like the same guy since Machida - Shogun 2. He just hasn't won like he did prior to that fight.

Shogun meanwhile has looked like a complete mess, even in the fights that's he's won.

Even if we operate under the premise that both guys have fallen off, you can't say with a straight face that Machida has fallen off more than Shogun.

Win or lose, in his last 5 fights, Machida has looked like Machida. Shogun has devolved into this sloppy brawler who looks nothing like the guy who spectacularly KO'd Machida in their 2nd fight.

Huge myth. He's come in with bad cardio a few fights but this idea that he is or ever was a fighter who threw a hundred kicks a round (especially against fighter where kicks would be a bad idea, unlike Machida) is just crazy. Shogun is doing what he always has done; setting up the big shots for the KO. The only fight that was a complete fail in this regard was the Jones one where he rushed his return from the knee surgery.

Also, he's always had this thing where he either finishes early or both him and his opponent ends up looking like shit since Shogun never goes 99% with anything but instead sets an extremely high pace of brawling Chute Boxe style until one of them falls over. His biggest detriment has been the lack of soccer kicks under the unified rules because he was by far the best at that and fighting a guy like Hendo would've for instance been a much easier fight the moment he got him to the ground. The threat of this position alone would've kept most guys who tried to wrestle with him in the UFC cautious because being on your back against Shogun Rua used to be the scariest position in all of MMA.

Shoguns career is over, why speculate?

3 knee surgeries and any athlete is long done. We already saw what happened anyway, a prime Lyoto got knocked the fuck out.

And here's another myth...

First of all it's just the one knee and not both as some posters would have you believe. Secondly your knees aren't "done" with modern treatments since they reconstruct a completely new acl these days instead of trying to repair the old one. The issue is all about time and not long term health issues. Like GSP said, with the right recovery his knee would be stronger than it was before and it was all about not rushing it. Those who does rush it usually ends up having to do a second reconstruction.

The reason why he had to do it three times was because he rushed recovery on the first two to get back to fighting and blew out his spanking new acls before they had time to settle in his body (much like Dominick Cruz just recently). The UFC then flew him in for his third surgery and basically forced him to do all the recovery to ensure he wouldn't destroy it again. And now that it's fixed - it's fixed. Period. He'll have as much problems from it as you would have cutting your hair and growing some new. The acl either works or it doesn't. He's either injured or he's not.

Here's some facts:

http://orthopedics.about.com/od/aclinjury/f/rehabtime.htm

7-9 months is the recommended recovery. GSP injured his knee in early December 2011 and returned in late November 2012, so he opted for the full 9 months plus a camp.

Shogun first blew out his knee in the Forrest fight in September 2007. He had a surgery but didn't recover enough and started to train and blew it out again, so was forced to have another one. He returned to action against Coleman in January 2009 - less than 17 months after his last fight and with two surgeries under his belt. The recovery time alone for two surgeries is 18 months so understandably it doesn't add up and he looked like shit against Mark. His next fights he destroyed Chuck and snatched the belt from Lyoto during which he blew out the knee again in their second fight.

This time the UFC flew him to states and had him do it properly. Buuut... he returned to action against Jon Jones in March 2011, about 10 months after his fight against Lyoto in May 2012. And subsequently, he looked awful in that fight. As bad as the Coleman fight.

His next fights he KOed Forrest in under 2 mins, had one of the best fights all time vs Hendo where he ended up losing on the score cards but had Dan beaten, turned in a lackluster performance against the notoriously tough Vera where he punched himself tired but beat him at his game, and then finally a loss against Gustafsson where he looked good but simply undersized.

And that's the story of Rua and his knees. Strip those fights where he had confirmed issues (Forrest 1, Coleman 2 and Jones) and he's only lost two battles against one of the arguably toughest chins and heaviest hitters in MMA and one against a prospect the size of King Kong.

Bad knees? Poorly informed.

 

[Martialarts123]

Fixed. Shogun is a shell of his former self.

You make a thread asking our opinions then refute them? Just stop

 

[TKimble]

Huge myth. He's come in with bad cardio a few fights but this idea that he is or ever was a fighter who threw a hundred kicks a round (especially against fighter where kicks would be a bad idea, unlike Machida) is just crazy. Shogun is doing what he always has done; setting up the big shots for the KO. The only fight that was a complete fail in this regard was the Jones one where he rushed his return from the knee surgery.

Also, he's always had this thing where he either finishes early or both him and his opponent ends up looking like shit since Shogun never goes 99% with anything but instead sets an extremely high pace of brawling Chute Boxe style until one of them falls over. His biggest detriment has been the lack of soccer kicks under the unified rules because he was by far the best at that and fighting a guy like Hendo would've for instance been a much easier fight the moment he got him to the ground. The threat of this position alone would've kept most guys who tried to wrestle with him in the UFC cautious because being on your back against Shogun Rua used to be the scariest position in all of MMA.

You probably missed my post explaining part of Shogun's devolution.

Edit: In short, Shogun never filled in the holes in his striking game, and while he could get away with that when he was younger and more talented than everyone else, increased skill of his competition combined with fading hand speed and criminal under-utilization of his leg kicks have left him predictable as well as vulnerable.